green water - can I just buy Daphnia?

[Byron]

I think we may have enough to go on now.

All of us that have responded are suggesting you do maintenance to rectify this issue rather than relying solely on daphnia. There is a problem causing green water, and the cause needs to be addressed. Just adding daphnia, even if they did eat this, is like solving a toothache by taking a handful of Tylenol, it does nothing to fix the issue. Water changes have to be significantly increased, feeding of the fish probably decreased, thorough vacuuming of the substrate during water changes, good cleaning regularly of the filter. The light on for only four hours is not likely the issue, so it has to be the organics feeding the unicellular algae.

The RO Vital [earlier you had typed RQ Vital which is probably why none of us could find it] is increasing the mineral content, in other words, making the water harder. Is there some reason you are using this? What is the GH and pH of your tap water on its own?

 

[pwilk]

I think we may have enough to go on now.

All of us that have responded are suggesting you do maintenance to rectify this issue rather than relying solely on daphnia. There is a problem causing green water, and the cause needs to be addressed. Just adding daphnia, even if they did eat this, is like solving a toothache by taking a handful of Tylenol, it does nothing to fix the issue. Water changes have to be significantly increased, feeding of the fish probably decreased, thorough vacuuming of the substrate during water changes, good cleaning regularly of the filter. The light on for only four hours is not likely the issue, so it has to be the organics feeding the unicellular algae.

The RO Vital [earlier you had typed RQ Vital which is probably why none of us could find it] is increasing the mineral content, in other words, making the water harder. Is there some reason you are using this? What is the GH and pH of your tap water on its own?

Thanks for the feedback! The only reason I used it was the creeping lowering of the pH and the assumption that the GH was being depleted due to my lack of water changes. I regret that now. I figured I should do something to avoid a catastrophic crash. I'm usually a coral reef tank guy, but my daughter got a goldfish so I thought I'd give freshwater another go. I usually try to get my tank in a good balance and let it take care of itself. I know a lot of folks are big into water changes but there are those of us out there that have gotten tanks into good balance and have had healthy tanks with no changes for months to even years.

I use our local soft tap water treated with Prime. I think it's buffering capacity is decent.

I had a brackish water tank for a bit, so I have a nice piece of amazon wood on my bookcase that I could add ... but I'm not sure tannins would help here.

My previous foray into freshwater I battled surface algae but have never had green water. So ... I am curious what I might do to deal with it without continual water changes or pitching some fish.

If I can chuck in a polish pad or keep some daphnia in a breeding basket to deal with the phytoplankton; I'd be game.

However, if I need to disappear a fish or two; or what eats goldfish? Ghost shrimp?

 

[JuiceBox52]

Thanks for the feedback! The only reason I used it was the creeping lowering of the pH and the assumption that the GH was being depleted due to my lack of water changes. I regret that now. I figured I should do something to avoid a catastrophic crash. I'm usually a coral reef tank guy, but my daughter got a goldfish so I thought I'd give freshwater another go. I usually try to get my tank in a good balance and let it take care of itself. I know a lot of folks are big into water changes but there are those of us out there that have gotten tanks into good balance and have had healthy tanks with no changes for months to even years.

I use our local soft tap water treated with Prime. I think it's buffering capacity is decent.

I had a brackish water tank for a bit, so I have a nice piece of amazon wood on my bookcase that I could add ... but I'm not sure tannins would help here.

My previous foray into freshwater I battled surface algae but have never had green water. So ... I am curious what I might do to deal with it without continual water changes or pitching some fish.

If I can chuck in a polish pad or keep some daphnia in a breeding basket to deal with the phytoplankton; I'd be game.

However, if I need to disappear a fish or two; or what eats goldfish? Ghost shrimp?

Ghost shrimp dont eat gold fish, they are much too small. If you need to get rid of some, offer them for free on Facebook or craigslist

 

[pwilk]

Ghost shrimp dont eat gold fish, they are much too small. If you need to get rid of some, offer them for free on Facebook or craigslist

You'd be surprised. Many of the ghost shrimp you buy end up being whisker shrimp and the goldfish may be eaten instead.

 

[JuiceBox52]

You'd be surprised. Many of the ghost shrimp you buy end up being whisker shrimp and the goldfish may be eaten instead.

My ghost shrimp will eat cherry shrimp.
Yes whisker shrimp would be able to eat a small goldfish, but then you'd have to get rid of the whisker shrimp later on. I still recommend offering them for free rather than buying something to eat them lol

 

[Salty&Onion]

Oh right. Hmm. It looks like 30 gallons to me. As for RQ vital ... christ, am I that old already?
https://web.archive.org/web/20161115120813/http://www.marcweissco.com/index.html
I guess it has been a while. Great product though. I will sell my vintage container for $100 (half full). See photos.

Can you measure the tank please? On the photos it looks too smalll for them and you overstocked it which can cause problems of all kinds, including stunted growth.

 

[Metalhead88]

I know a lot of folks are big into water changes but there are those of us out there that have gotten tanks into good balance and have had healthy tanks with no changes for months to even years.

Yeah, that's not how it works. Anyone that doesn't do a water change in months or years is simply irresponsible and should not keep fish. Fish may seem fine, but nitrates build quickly and lead to a slow and painful death. There is no way around regular maintenance.

Idk what that RQ vital is, but I'd discontinue use of that product. The description of that is not something that I'd want in my tank. If it is "vintage" it should certainty not be used.

 

[Byron]

Going back to what you wrote in post #17...this is a scientific hobby throughout. We keep fish in the artificial environment of an aquarium, that's true, but every thing that occurs within that aquarium is due to the laws of biology and chemistry. As an aquarist, each of us must understand the basics, and that is not too difficult. Read the two citations in my signature block. Like most animals, and humans included, fish will try hard to survive no matter what difficulties they face, but that survival is a very different thing from thriving. Just because the fish live through the adverse conditions we force upon them does not mean they are healthy. They are not.

And one scientific fact cannot be overlooked...there is no way the fish in that tank can be healthy without regular (once a week) substantial (60-70%) water changes. The green water is proof that thee system is not working, and you must get beehind that and resolve the problem. We still do not have the GH and pH of your tap water, and this is the starting point.

 

[ChefAlex]

Thanks for the feedback! The only reason I used it was the creeping lowering of the pH and the assumption that the GH was being depleted due to my lack of water changes. I regret that now. I figured I should do something to avoid a catastrophic crash. I'm usually a coral reef tank guy, but my daughter got a goldfish so I thought I'd give freshwater another go. I usually try to get my tank in a good balance and let it take care of itself. I know a lot of folks are big into water changes but there are those of us out there that have gotten tanks into good balance and have had healthy tanks with no changes for months to even years.

I use our local soft tap water treated with Prime. I think it's buffering capacity is decent.

I had a brackish water tank for a bit, so I have a nice piece of amazon wood on my bookcase that I could add ... but I'm not sure tannins would help here.

My previous foray into freshwater I battled surface algae but have never had green water. So ... I am curious what I might do to deal with it without continual water changes or pitching some fish.

If I can chuck in a polish pad or keep some daphnia in a breeding basket to deal with the phytoplankton; I'd be game.

However, if I need to disappear a fish or two; or what eats goldfish? Ghost shrimp?

pwilk,

As you claim you are a reef hobbyist, I am shocked to see how you don’t understand why or how the algae issue in a freshwater tank is solved. The dynamics going on in a freshwater tank are the same in any reef. Yes, many extremely sensitive acropora dominated reefs are running great with zero water for years. You and I both know this is accomplished through advanced nutrient export, ICP water analysis, and sophisticated dosing regimens. None of this is occurring in your goldfish tank. Food in= nutrients out. Nitrification alone only solves one piece of the puzzle.

No, daphnia will not solve this in any reasonable way.

 

[I nEEd mEnTAl HeLP]

If ghost shrimp can eat your goldfish alive then my otocinclus is eating veggies. Trust me ghost shrimp won't eat your goldfish unless they've already died.

In my opinion, water changes are important for goldfish. Other members have told you how to solve the green water- other better ways than employing daphnia of course. Also, I would upgrade to something like a 40 breeder? However I don't know how many goldfish are in the tank. Goldfish are tough, they can survive a lot of things and looking to see whether the tank is suitable or not based on mere survival is, IMO, inappropriate.

I also suggest switching out the gravel with sand. Heard too many horror stories of goldfish randomly eating gravel and they can sift through the sand.

 

[pwilk]

As you claim you are a reef hobbyist, I am shocked to see how you don’t understand why or how the algae issue in a freshwater tank is solved.

Heh, I am amused by everyone that were so sure they knew exactly how what was causing the algae issue and others that thought I was a terrible tank keeper and shouldn't have fish. Well, here's the tank now. No water changes recently, well I did a couple 20% ones back in April but they had no effect. Same fish. I didn't move the tank or substantially alter the illumination. I did chuck in some fresh water clams a while ago and a few new plants for diversity. There might be a few clams left, but most died. The goldfish ate them I am pretty sure, but I didn't check the ammonia either. The fish are stupidly healthy and the plants seem well. I'll report back in later to see if it lasts. The biomass seems to better balanced now and that is what is important; if you have to constantly monitor and tweak the chemistry it means it is not in balance. Some wise soul on the forum said not to freak out about green water as it doesn't hurt the fish, so no need for drastic measures. The tank clearing when it happened, happened overnight; over the course of 48 hours it went from what you saw in my first post to what you see here.

 

[Byron]

Heh, I am amused by everyone that were so sure they knew exactly how what was causing the algae issue and others that thought I was a terrible tank keeper and shouldn't have fish. Well, here's the tank now. No water changes recently, well I did a couple 20% ones back in April but they had no effect. Same fish. I didn't move the tank or substantially alter the illumination. I did chuck in some fresh water clams a while ago and a few new plants for diversity. There might be a few clams left, but most died. The goldfish ate them I am pretty sure, but I didn't check the ammonia either. The fish are stupidly healthy and the plants seem well. I'll report back in later to see if it lasts. The biomass seems to better balanced now and that is what is important; if you have to constantly monitor and tweak the chemistry it means it is not in balance. Some wise soul on the forum said not to freak out about green water as it doesn't hurt the fish, so no need for drastic measures. The tank clearing when it happened, happened overnight; over the course of 48 hours it went from what you saw in my first post to what you see here.

I do not mean for this to sound harsh, though I know it will. But you have made a statement that is absolutely untrue, and making it suggests either you do not understand fish health or you are just trying to get a reaction from some of us. In the interest of caring about fish and wanting to help, I will assume the former.

The fish are not healthy in this tank. The fact that the water that was green may have cleared (even overnight, which by the way is not at all unusual) does not mean the initial cause has been resolved or bettered. Over time, green water just like cloudiness from bacterial blooms, diatom blooms, organics blooms, or microscopic sediment, can clear as the system settles into the "new" balance. But this balance is not necessarily healthy. Clear water is not the same as clean water. And there is only one way to achievee clean water and healthy fish, and that is regular substantial water changes in a biological system that is in balance to begin with.

Of course one should not be continually tweaking chemistry...the water changes cause a stability that will not require any of this tweaking. And it will be a healthier environment for the fish. You can deny all this as much as you like, but it does not change the scientific fact.

 

[Metalhead88]

We are only trying to help. Not prove you wrong.

There is nothing to prove here.

 

[pwilk]

I do not mean for this to sound harsh, though I know it will. But you have made a statement that is absolutely untrue, and making it suggests either you do not understand fish health or you are just trying to get a reaction from some of us. In the interest of caring about fish and wanting to help, I will assume the former.

The fish are not healthy in this tank. The fact that the water that was green may have cleared (even overnight, which by the way is not at all unusual) does not mean the initial cause has been resolved or bettered. Over time, green water just like cloudiness from bacterial blooms, diatom blooms, organics blooms, or microscopic sediment, can clear as the system settles into the "new" balance. But this balance is not necessarily healthy. Clear water is not the same as clean water. And there is only one way to achievee clean water and healthy fish, and that is regular substantial water changes in a biological system that is in balance to begin with.

Of course one should not be continually tweaking chemistry...the water changes cause a stability that will not require any of this tweaking. And it will be a healthier environment for the fish. You can deny all this as much as you like, but it does not change the scientific fact.

You have not indicated in what way my fish are not healthy. You have postulated that there's "only one way to achievee [sic] clean water and healthy fish, and that is regular substantial water changes". I disagree, and I think my tank proves the point. Give me a metric on a different way to measure fish health, and I will be happy to discuss; but until then my metric of normal and vigorous feeding, and general happy fish motion; indicates healthy fish. I am sorry that it the data does not fit your theory, but science is data driven.

 

[pwilk]

We are only trying to help. Not prove you wrong.

There is nothing to prove here.

Totally! I love the discussion. There were just a few folks (read above) that went so far as to question my humanity. The discussion encouraged me not to waste my time on daphnia and pursue other things. I am totally curious about folks' thoughts on clams and if anybody else has them in their tanks.