Gourami Deaths

[mikep]

2 days ago my male Neon Blue Dwarf Gourami deteriorated and died with in 24hrs. Its eyes were cloudy, its coloured dulled and his scales especially around his head had turned 'leathery' looking. Around 3 days ago I removed my opaline gouramis as these have been harassing the gourami. Yesterday however the same has happened to my dwarf female, same symptoms, same rapid deterioration. Can anybody explain this?
I also have 2 kissing gouramis, they seem fine and only hassle eachother.

 

[sylvia]

Well you have to provide some more information first if that's possible:

What size tank (in gallons or litres)?
What other fish are with them and how many of each?
How long have you had the dwarf?
How long has the tank been running with fish?
What are the water parameters - exact values for ammonia, nitrIte and nitrAte?

Cloudy eyes are usualy a symptom that results from poor water quality. I would do several large water changes with de-chlorinated water. There is also a chance your fish had/has an internal bacterial infection but, without more information, there's no way to say for certain.

Oh and one more question - are all your fish eating properly and did the fish that died stop eating first and, if yes, how long before it died did it seem to first lose its appetite?

I'd like to add that, though I'm not sure what size tank you have, kissing gouramies get to 8" so you need at least a 30 gallon for the pair but a larger tank might be necessary once they mature (depends on the individual fish).

 

[TESS]

Same sort of thing happened to my gouramis first the female then the male all with 24 hours about 2 weeks ago, water was tested and good. As far as i can see it could be an internal bacterial infection. I wonder if your LFS has the same suppliers as mine hmmmmmmmmm

 

[mikep]

Appologies for lateness of reply. I've just done a 30% water change 2 days ago after completing whitespot treatment. Nitrite is zero but I haven't tested for ammonia.
The tank is a Juwel rekord 120 running since last september. The male dwarf has been in since I finished a fishless cycle. The female has only been in a couple of weeks. The tank contains 2 kissing gouramis, 2 ruby rams, 10 red phantoms, 4 zebra danios, a red tail shark and a plec. There were 2 opaline gouramis but they had to go for being too agressive. I have seen them attack the male dwarf but not the female.
Both gouramis were taking food 24hrs before they died as are all the fish.
I've started an internal bacteria treatment now aswell.

 

[sylvia]

You've started the new treatment in this tank? You will probably get a mini-cycle. In future (or even now if you can), use a seperate tank to treat for internal bacterial infections or you mess up your water quality which can, in itself, lead to deaths. Also, you don't need to treat all the fish - only the dwarf is sick so putting the others through the stress isn't necessary. Other than that, with the information you've given now I would just check all the water params are ok and then continue treatment. Do make sure you test for ammonia and nitrIte regularly. I would also test for high nitrAtes (over 20-40ppm) as you do have quite a few fish in there. Good luck with her.

 

[mikep]

I've now tested ammonia and its zero. I was told by my LFS that it isn't necessary to quarantine for internal bacteria treatment. I was also told that heavy planting would control nitrate, is this true?

 

[sylvia]

Quarantining to medicate for internal bacteria isn't NECESSARY but I'm just warning you that if you don't, you probably will get a deadly ammonia/nitrIte spike eventualy. It is realy simple if you think about it - the medication is meant to kill bacteria - that includes the good bacteria that grow in your filter/gravel and often it can considerably decrease the number in your tank and cause problems. Yes, the bacteria do recover in a very short time (one or two days) but, still, this may cost some fish their lives. I myself have made the mistake of overlooking this and it cost several of my fish dearly. I will never risk it again.

As for plants keeping nitrAte low, yes they do. Plants take up nitrAtes and use them BUT they do NOT ever elliminate the need for regular (at least weekly) water changes and they are never an excuse for over-stocking. Only fast-growing plants realy can keep up with ntrAte levels anyway so, realy, the only time when they have a significant effect is if they are something like elodea that grows several inches over night (slight exageration there - but only slight) in some cases (and is one of the few plants I can grow ) or if your tank is very heavily planted with lighting/CO2 to match so as to encourage plant growth (plants that aren't growing won't be needing any nitrAtes).

So yes your LFS was right but, IMO, a little vague .

 

[mikep]

Thanks for the advice, it's an information mine-field out there.