Good Idea To Use Antifungal In Tank For Cory Eggs?
- Thread starter Cory_Dad
- Start date
jollysue
Fish Connoisseur
I think, as Tolak says. we all start with a method from our mentors or one we read about. As we find our individual problems and complications, we adjust and find solutions for our situation. My mentor was Inchworm and I successfully reared my first fry with her help. I started with an Eclipse 3 bare bottom tank with an air stone. I found I had trouble with keeping up with the cleaning requirements. I also was very tired and only had a few minutes to get stuff done and get to bed. I would forget to pipette into a container and would wash the little guys down the drain. 
I lost lots of eggs and fry to fungus, because I could not keep the bottom clean enough, especially using fry powders. It took way too much time that I did not have.
I heard of the breeding net approach and tried it. It worked much better for me. I lost fry who would escape during water changes, but learned how to do better. I had some hatch rate problems, because I put the net under the water flowing down from the filter so they could not get to the top. So I moved them where they would get an upward flow.
I have not had to use anti fungals deliberately for the eggs or fry. But I have had eggs and fry in tanks that got treated. I didn't find any noticable ill effects. But I do not count eggs and fry or watch as closely as others do, so I can't be sure.
I assume that some day I will just have a hatching tank. But I always lose a few when I move them while they are young. So they are quite mature when I finally put them into their own big wide world.
What I have learned from others is that each person develops their own methods and style. What works for one may not work for another, just as Tolak said. I was never able to find liquid fry and stopped trying. Because I use the net, I can safely use fry powders. I have never started microworms. It is another labor intensive job. I do use about 4 lbs of black worms a month now. Those must be cleaned almost daily. The fry start nibbling on them very young.
I lost lots of eggs and fry to fungus, because I could not keep the bottom clean enough, especially using fry powders. It took way too much time that I did not have.I heard of the breeding net approach and tried it. It worked much better for me. I lost fry who would escape during water changes, but learned how to do better. I had some hatch rate problems, because I put the net under the water flowing down from the filter so they could not get to the top. So I moved them where they would get an upward flow.
I have not had to use anti fungals deliberately for the eggs or fry. But I have had eggs and fry in tanks that got treated. I didn't find any noticable ill effects. But I do not count eggs and fry or watch as closely as others do, so I can't be sure.
I assume that some day I will just have a hatching tank. But I always lose a few when I move them while they are young. So they are quite mature when I finally put them into their own big wide world.
What I have learned from others is that each person develops their own methods and style. What works for one may not work for another, just as Tolak said. I was never able to find liquid fry and stopped trying. Because I use the net, I can safely use fry powders. I have never started microworms. It is another labor intensive job. I do use about 4 lbs of black worms a month now. Those must be cleaned almost daily. The fry start nibbling on them very young.
One more thing I feel that should be mentioned is what I read some time ago in a book, I believe on discus. This is something I have discussed with other breeders, and many agree with it. With the infertile eggs, or eggs that fungus, bacteria, which is faster growing, kills them first, the fungus is secondary. Fungus is easy to see with the naked eye, bacteria requires a microscope, slide prep equipment, and some bacteriology knowledge for identification. You would also need the time to pull & prepare slides every few hours, and probably multiple spawns, as bacteria does grow at a faster rate. Often the parents get by fine with a low level of harmful bacteria, but this gets passed on to the spawn, which can't handle this bacterial level.
This is why a very clean bare tank works well with hatching & fry, and why with multiple daily water changes you can often have success hatching & raising fry with no additives. You can also reduce, or nearly eliminate any bacterial transfer by cleaning up the parent's tank, I have heard of people having fabulous results after treating a tank with angel pairs using potassium permanganate. This is not something to try on a whim, as if you don't know how to figure the proper concentration fish damage can occur. Here's a little link to some breeder's personal experiences with pp; http
/www.angelfish.net/yabbse/index.php?...;threadid=11739
If this would work the same with corys as it does with cichlids I have no idea, perhaps someone with more catfish experience than I could chime in on this one.
This is why a very clean bare tank works well with hatching & fry, and why with multiple daily water changes you can often have success hatching & raising fry with no additives. You can also reduce, or nearly eliminate any bacterial transfer by cleaning up the parent's tank, I have heard of people having fabulous results after treating a tank with angel pairs using potassium permanganate. This is not something to try on a whim, as if you don't know how to figure the proper concentration fish damage can occur. Here's a little link to some breeder's personal experiences with pp; http
/www.angelfish.net/yabbse/index.php?...;threadid=11739 If this would work the same with corys as it does with cichlids I have no idea, perhaps someone with more catfish experience than I could chime in on this one.
jollysue
Fish Connoisseur
Tolak! You are so heads and heels above us! LOL
But it is certainly true that eggs that fungus are often already dead so to speak (i. e. not viable) whether from not being fertile or from having been damaged. No amount of preventative will make those eggs viable.
Does the pp also destroy the nitric bacteria?
I am inclined to think that your angels and discus are more sensitive than the Corys. Much as the Betta is, they have been line bred to develop special characteristics. In the Cory community there is a very strong movement against that.
But it is certainly true that eggs that fungus are often already dead so to speak (i. e. not viable) whether from not being fertile or from having been damaged. No amount of preventative will make those eggs viable.
Does the pp also destroy the nitric bacteria?
I am inclined to think that your angels and discus are more sensitive than the Corys. Much as the Betta is, they have been line bred to develop special characteristics. In the Cory community there is a very strong movement against that.
If the eggs are damaged, being infertile or having been attacked by bacteria, by the time you see fungus it is too late. Acriflavin has antibacterial properties, that help with this, as does Maroxy to some extent, being a chlorine based product. None of these will help with infertile eggs.
PP will decimate your nitrifying bacteria, you need to pull the filters when doing this. Corys, being scaleless fish, may be more sensitive to this, as they are to salt. I’m just hoping to find out from more experienced cat breeders if the technique used with cichlids would also work with corys, and if not, why not.
PP will decimate your nitrifying bacteria, you need to pull the filters when doing this. Corys, being scaleless fish, may be more sensitive to this, as they are to salt. I’m just hoping to find out from more experienced cat breeders if the technique used with cichlids would also work with corys, and if not, why not.
jollysue
Fish Connoisseur
I will be interested to find out what you discover.
OP
OP
Cory_Dad
Fishaholic
.... what the heck can I say??? This is way over my head.
I've so far managed to keep at least 6 fry alive either through the water changes or just dumb ass luck.
I appreciate all the feed back but some of it I just don't understand. As was stated, something that works for 'A' may not work for 'B'.
The troubling thing is my fry are one week old and don't seem any larger than when they were born (may be just perception) but I'm going on vacation for a week next Wednesday and am worried about their future. Luckily my oldest son (who is 'into' fish said he would help out) is going to take over.
Who knew that this would get so complicated?!?!
I kept fish for over 20 years on dumb luck before I started to find out how complicated it was. 
I still stay lost half of the time.
jollysue has been helping me the last couple of days because I was having trouble with a cory tank. Turns out I had the temp way too high. My nitrates were quite high also.
I am always finding situations that stump me.
Tolak has saved my fish on several occasions.
As for using meds... I don't use them until I see that it isn't going to happen without it. Then after a few attempts not working out I will break out the meds. I start small with pima fix and mela fix and work my way up. I try not to use meth blue if I don't have to because I keep plants in with my eggs and fry. It will kill plants... not to mention staining everything blue...
I find it is trial and error with each type I decide to breed. Each one is different.
You just have to keep trying until you find something that works.
I still stay lost half of the time.
jollysue has been helping me the last couple of days because I was having trouble with a cory tank. Turns out I had the temp way too high. My nitrates were quite high also.
I am always finding situations that stump me.
Tolak has saved my fish on several occasions.
As for using meds... I don't use them until I see that it isn't going to happen without it. Then after a few attempts not working out I will break out the meds. I start small with pima fix and mela fix and work my way up. I try not to use meth blue if I don't have to because I keep plants in with my eggs and fry. It will kill plants... not to mention staining everything blue...
I find it is trial and error with each type I decide to breed. Each one is different.
You just have to keep trying until you find something that works.
jollysue
Fish Connoisseur
Don't worry about Tolak's and my conversation. It was over my head too, but converations like that help open doors of understanding or leave little sign posts along the way to investigate when needed. We were hijacking your thread. I hope we didn't bother you.
Fry will graze on java moss and algae and microbs in their tanks. I have left fry for long periods without feeding them and they do very well from the green water and algae and moss in their breeding nets. This most likely though will not work in a fry tank that has to be kept spotless.
Complicated! Yes, lots to learn. It all depends on how deep into the hobby you want to go. Some people are still keepong Goldies in bowls and Corys on gravel and are not interested in changing. Others like Tolak are in so deep I can barely see them or understand them. I have never even been able to find pp. It is the stuff by the way ICEEGRL that is used to clean new plants so they don't bring in unwanted itty bitty monsters.
Fry will graze on java moss and algae and microbs in their tanks. I have left fry for long periods without feeding them and they do very well from the green water and algae and moss in their breeding nets. This most likely though will not work in a fry tank that has to be kept spotless.
Complicated! Yes, lots to learn. It all depends on how deep into the hobby you want to go. Some people are still keepong Goldies in bowls and Corys on gravel and are not interested in changing. Others like Tolak are in so deep I can barely see them or understand them. I have never even been able to find pp. It is the stuff by the way ICEEGRL that is used to clean new plants so they don't bring in unwanted itty bitty monsters.
This is good information to have! 
I might just have to search for some... 
OP
OP
Cory_Dad
Fishaholic
I thought Corys were carnivorous? I didn't realize that they would eat java moss; I'll have to transfer some from my community tank.
Good tip, thanks.
jollysue
Fish Connoisseur
I may have overstated the case. I don't want everyone to go feeding their Corys Java Moss! LOL There are microbs in green water. The fry will get nutrition from that. I have also read some speculation about the effect of some algaes on the water conditions and bacteria. I am out of my depth here really. I don't want everyone to run and change the recommended ways of hatching and raising fry. It is an area that can be investigated. But my evidence is mostly experential and not used broadly.
As to antifungals: I just read an article by Ian Fuller. In it he recommends for those using antifungals with eggs, that they add them at the first, then do water changes with the parent's tank water (in this method he floats a tub with water from the parent tank with an air stone in the parent's tank), so that the anti fungal is changed out by the time the fry are born.
There are lots of methods I must try yet. At this point I do the lazy way, because that is all I have time for. But I intend to try different methods.
Corys are omnivores--specifically insectavores that also graze green matter in a tank.
ICEEGRL: pp (potassium permanganate) I have heard is available in the plumbing market. I would think you can get more info in the plant section.
As to antifungals: I just read an article by Ian Fuller. In it he recommends for those using antifungals with eggs, that they add them at the first, then do water changes with the parent's tank water (in this method he floats a tub with water from the parent tank with an air stone in the parent's tank), so that the anti fungal is changed out by the time the fry are born.
There are lots of methods I must try yet. At this point I do the lazy way, because that is all I have time for. But I intend to try different methods.
Corys are omnivores--specifically insectavores that also graze green matter in a tank.
ICEEGRL: pp (potassium permanganate) I have heard is available in the plumbing market. I would think you can get more info in the plant section.
This is what I do with spawns, in regard to water changes. If you consider the spawn date as day zero, I start 50% water changes daily on day 3. I was talking with a buddy yesterday evening, about clamping small 2.5 gallon tanks inside of larger tanks for hatching & growing out fry. My fishroom sits at about 78F, the lower racks will stay in the mid 70's with no heater, so I don't bother floating bowls or tanks.
PP is often used with swimming pools, as well as being a plumbing supply.
jollysue
Fish Connoisseur
You start early, Tolak.
Is it the buddy that wants to clamp the smaller tanks inside the larger tank?
One suggestion for the Cory hatchery was to use a tub--I believe like RubberMade or Sterilite--with a fitted lid. Cut a hole and run the airline in though that.
With Cory eggs, if you add the anti fungal/bacterials the 3rd day the fry would often be already hatched? I think Ian's point is to change out the meds by the time the fry hatch, which answers some of Inchworm's objection. Myself I don't have the experience to know if it is necessary to have no meds with the fry. I have not been keeping journals and close count of what I do.
If I get a batch of eggs into a container, they hatch and I get some fry to the 1" size and moved into new quarters I consider myself a success at this point. LOL I get the easy to harvest eggs and hope to get some to juvie status. I don't try for big numbers or big percentages. I heard it called "the hard way" recently. I call it survival of the fittest.
Is it the buddy that wants to clamp the smaller tanks inside the larger tank?
One suggestion for the Cory hatchery was to use a tub--I believe like RubberMade or Sterilite--with a fitted lid. Cut a hole and run the airline in though that.
With Cory eggs, if you add the anti fungal/bacterials the 3rd day the fry would often be already hatched? I think Ian's point is to change out the meds by the time the fry hatch, which answers some of Inchworm's objection. Myself I don't have the experience to know if it is necessary to have no meds with the fry. I have not been keeping journals and close count of what I do.
If I get a batch of eggs into a container, they hatch and I get some fry to the 1" size and moved into new quarters I consider myself a success at this point. LOL I get the easy to harvest eggs and hope to get some to juvie status. I don't try for big numbers or big percentages. I heard it called "the hard way" recently. I call it survival of the fittest.
I pigged out on pizza after work, fell asleep by 7pm. Woke up at around 2 am, started messing with the fishroom, and, well...
From what I've seen, they are swimming by the 4th day, but still living off of the yolk sack, much the same as wigglers with angels. I don't feed until the 6th day, I found this out the hard way, fouled water will take them out in a hurry!
Yes, it is the friend of mine who is thinking of clipping small tanks inside larger ones. He has some long fin greens that are spawning for him, he picked up an old metalframe hatching tank that was actually designed to hang inside a larger tank. Just applying old school ideas to new equipment. A friend of mine does pandas with the tupperware just as you described, he breeds a ton of them
I breed the greens just to keep angel tanks clean, not looking for numbers, just eaters. I try to set a good example by eating & passing out for hours.
From what I've seen, they are swimming by the 4th day, but still living off of the yolk sack, much the same as wigglers with angels. I don't feed until the 6th day, I found this out the hard way, fouled water will take them out in a hurry!
Yes, it is the friend of mine who is thinking of clipping small tanks inside larger ones. He has some long fin greens that are spawning for him, he picked up an old metalframe hatching tank that was actually designed to hang inside a larger tank. Just applying old school ideas to new equipment. A friend of mine does pandas with the tupperware just as you described, he breeds a ton of them
I breed the greens just to keep angel tanks clean, not looking for numbers, just eaters. I try to set a good example by eating & passing out for hours.
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