Goldfish With Silver Dollar?

[InaneCathode]

I bought a 10 gallon tank that came with a silver dollar (hes about 5 inches long, 5 inches tall) to use to watch my girlfriends goldfish for her over the winter (they live in a pond in the backyard of her house, but its too shallow to keep them over the winter in it). They are 2 fantail goldies, about 2 inches long a piece.
For a while they've all been fine together, but i've noticed late at night before i go to bed the silver dollar is harassing the hell out of the goldfish. The goldfishes' fins have been deteriorating as well, i finished a maracyn I and II treatment 2 weeks ago and it doesnt seem to help the fin 'rot'. Are there fins deteriorating because of a fungal infection or is it this blasted silver dollar. Is this kind of behavior normal for silver dollars?
I assume i'll have to get rid of the silver dollar, he's pretty much huge, i've never seen any this large. Can i trade him in for something at the fish store or what should i do with him?

 

[SJ2K]

Silver dollars are warm water fish, goldies are cold, this wont work.

 

[raptorrex]

Silver dollars are warm water fish, goldies are cold, this wont work.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

For a start;
a. Silver dollars are shoaling fish, and should not be kept on their own because of this, otherwise they may start to show abnormal behavior like agression. Because they are recommended to be kept in groups of at least 5-6 indviduals or more, a 50gallon tank minimum is recommended for them- they are also herbivous fish;

http/www.fishforums.net/content/Characin.../Silver-dollar/

b. a 10gallon tank is far too small for silver dollars or fancy goldfish, fantail goldfish can grow to 10inches long or more. The fancy goldfish should really be moved to at least a 30gallon long tank as they grow larger.

c. Silver dollars are tropical fish while fantails are sub-tropical going on coldwater fish, temp-wise alone they are not ideal tankmates as keeping fish in the worng temperatures messes up their metabolisms and so shortens their life expectancies and generally makes them more prone to diseases etc.

d. Fancy goldfish are prone to being picked on by many types of fish because of the way they have been selectively bred, they cannot swim very fast and are not very agile fish, they should thus be kept only ideally with other fancy goldfish.




You need to separate the silver dollar from the goldfish imediately, if you don't fancy getting him a 50gallon tank with a shoal of other silver dollars, then you should really rehome him to someone who can .
Is the goldfish tank filtered at all and how do you go about cleaning the tank and how often? Have you got any accurate water quality testing kits for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and ph?

 

[InaneCathode]

I know goldfish are cold water, but would you rather them frozen in a 12 inch block of ice by mid December or kept in a tank thats warmer than normal? I know it's easy to post cookie cutter answers when you see something like 'tropical fish a with cold water fish b' then respond 'it wont work they're cold water fish.' but i don't have a choice to be quite honest. I do also know gold fish grow to 10 inches or more, but how many years does that take? I think they goldies will be fine in a 10 gallon for 8 months. I'll bug the girlfriend to look into digging a bigger pond out (not sure what the water depth is around here for goldfish, but being Colorado it gets colder than a witches teat for 8 months or so)
I'll just be re-homing the silver dollar, I expected to do so when i got the tank (i know they're shoaling, not nice for the dollar to be alone ).
I clean the gold fish tank every week, about 30%-40% water change when i do so (magnet scrub the weird brown algae off the glass, suck dust off the plants, gravel vac) I also do have a battery of water tests at hand.
Once i rehome the silver dollar, would you suggest removing the heater from the tank? I think that might be alright, never gets too cold in my room anyway. Are there any cold water companion fish that can go in with the goldfish?

 

[raptorrex]

I know goldfish are cold water, but would you rather them frozen in a 12 inch block of ice by mid December or kept in a tank thats warmer than normal? I know it's easy to post cookie cutter answers when you see something like 'tropical fish a with cold water fish b' then respond 'it wont work they're cold water fish.' but i don't have a choice to be quite honest. I do also know gold fish grow to 10 inches or more, but how many years does that take? I think they goldies will be fine in a 10 gallon for 8 months. I'll bug the girlfriend to look into digging a bigger pond out (not sure what the water depth is around here for goldfish, but being Colorado it gets colder than a witches teat for 8 months or so)
I'll just be re-homing the silver dollar, I expected to do so when i got the tank (i know they're shoaling, not nice for the dollar to be alone ).
I clean the gold fish tank every week, about 30%-40% water change when i do so (magnet scrub the weird brown algae off the glass, suck dust off the plants, gravel vac) I also do have a battery of water tests at hand.
Once i rehome the silver dollar, would you suggest removing the heater from the tank? I think that might be alright, never gets too cold in my room anyway. Are there any cold water companion fish that can go in with the goldfish?

cookie cutter answer or not. the tank is only big enough for 1 goldfish. it is a fact that silver dollars need a vastly different temp than goldies do. thinking it will be ok is far from ensuring it is.

 

[winralove]

i dont know much about silver dollars but, i do know that goldfish can be kept in warters up to 78 degrees also know as aroud about 23 degrees celcius any higher than that and they can cause deformaties. It was very nice of you to look after the goldfish for your girl friend but your probably gonna have to get rid of the silver dollar or the gold fish

 

[Imber]

There is always the option of getting a big plastic rubbermaid-like tub for the goldfish. I've used them on numerous occasions as hospital/qt tanks for goldies, and know of others that use them as permanent indoor "ponds". I've gotten these tubs for under $10 so it's also a pretty inexpensive solution and the goldfish would be much happier.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I know goldfish are cold water, but would you rather them frozen in a 12 inch block of ice by mid December or kept in a tank thats warmer than normal? I know it's easy to post cookie cutter answers when you see something like 'tropical fish a with cold water fish b' then respond 'it wont work they're cold water fish.' but i don't have a choice to be quite honest. I do also know gold fish grow to 10 inches or more, but how many years does that take? I think they goldies will be fine in a 10 gallon for 8 months. I'll bug the girlfriend to look into digging a bigger pond out (not sure what the water depth is around here for goldfish, but being Colorado it gets colder than a witches teat for 8 months or so)
I'll just be re-homing the silver dollar, I expected to do so when i got the tank (i know they're shoaling, not nice for the dollar to be alone ).
I clean the gold fish tank every week, about 30%-40% water change when i do so (magnet scrub the weird brown algae off the glass, suck dust off the plants, gravel vac) I also do have a battery of water tests at hand.
Once i rehome the silver dollar, would you suggest removing the heater from the tank? I think that might be alright, never gets too cold in my room anyway. Are there any cold water companion fish that can go in with the goldfish?

I know its a better situation than keeping them in a freezing pond, however if the pond does freeze during winter then it is too cold for fancy goldfish even if you deepen it, they just can't tolerate freezing temps and are unlikely to survive a frozen pond- comet and common goldfish are some of the only varieties of goldfish which can live outside all year round .
If you do get some outdoor goldfish, the pond should ideally be at least 3ft deep or more if they are to live in the pond all year round .

I've only kept non-fancy varieties of goldfish, but i believe that most goldfish varieties grow about 1inch every 3-4months. With the fancy goldfish, most goldfish compatable tankmates need a larger tank than yours, you may be able to get away with white cloud mountain minnows or bloodfin tetras (both of these fish are primarily sub-tropical, enjoying temps around 18-24 degree's C most), however goldfish will eat any fish small enough to fit in their mouth which they can catch. Most fancy goldfish are too slow to catch and eat fish like WCMM's and bloodfin tetras, however i have heard of a few cases of such things happening. You might be able to get away with fathead/rosey red minnows, although i believe they tend to do better in tanks 15gallons long or more.
Dojo loaches make good goldfish tankmates, however they need at least a 3ft long 50gallon tank as they grow very long but are very cool fish to keep .