Goldfish Sick (Began Around Mouth)

orenishimo

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Request Help

Tank size: 40 gallons
pH: Always a little low, from 6.8-7
ammonia:0
nitrite:0
nitrate:60 - Always this number or higher, I think it's just my tap water
kH:40 (usually always, even with water changes)
gH:120 (always too high...)
tank temp:72~

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):
I've had this goldfish a few years now, and his fins are never perfect becaue they're really long (no other goldfish's fins are affected). He first started with redness above his mouth, and within 2 days it became a huge red uneven sore and he could barely open his mouth. I isolated him in another tank and heated it, put a tad of salt, and used melafix as directed. After 5 days he didn't die from the sore so I readded him to the tank. At this time, his large sore was gone and it because more of an indent in his head, and there's a hole now too (so when he eats some of it escapes from his face...) (sort of like a zombie fish lol). He can open his mouth though, but the area still doesn't look good. He swims in place near the back of the tank facing the wall alone, in place. When he paces the tank with the other fish (when they want food), he has twitchy motions. Since I readded him his fins mainly stay against his body now too. He has no lifted scales or other spots on his body or fins.
So, my questions are:
Will he die?
Is he contagious?
If he'll live, will the sore/open hole eventually heal?

Volume and Frequency of water changes: 25% once a week if not a little more

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: I add the directed amount of aquasafe plus with water changes, plus occasionally melafix to help fish fins. I have a good sized fluval filter with... round media with holes in the middle?? I have a friend who knows much more than me about fish and he said it was good. I had carbon in the filter, but have removed it until the fish gets better.
When I extracted the fish for quarantine, I wiped all the walls of the main tank, filtered all the gravel, and removed everything in the tank seperately to give it a good scrub down (with water).

Tank inhabitants:I know, there's too many fish in a tank my size. I also know, that goldfish like cold and tropical like warm. But, the goldfish and everything else has been fine for years at 72~.
I have: 4 goldfish, 3 cory catfish, 2 chinese algae eaters (added November), 3 upside down catfish, 1 white cloud, 1 long fin danio, and 3 small snails. The snails are VERY important to me therefore I can't add salt to the whole tank. I have no plants because they always get eaten. I've tried many different kinds, the snails eat most of them, including moss balls. The goldfish eventually also eat the moss balls if food gets dropped in them by accident.
 
I live in a basement with no natural light at all. The tank is set on a timer for about 8 hours of light and bubbles. A lot of algae builds on the walls within the last few months, but I do my best to take care of it (I lost my main cleaner snails a while back I guess that's why).
 
The only sharp things in the tank are old snail shells (like 2). I leave them in their for calcium for my current snails.

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): 2 chinese algae eaters, November

Exposure to chemicals: melafix sometimes, and aquasafe plus with water changes

Digital photo (include if possible):
4 attached:
2 before quarantine showing bubble above mouth, one before quarantine showing his fins, and one after showing the collapsed mouth area (also shows "sharp" snail shell example).
 
Thank you for your time and help!
Laura
 

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Almost looks like a mouth fungus...lemme do my research really quick :p
 
orenishimo said:
Request Help

Tank size: 40 gallons
pH: Always a little low, from 6.8-7
ammonia:0
nitrite:0
nitrate:60 - Always this number or higher, I think it's just my tap water
Dangerous level for Nitrate, try to keep it below 40.
kH:40 (usually always, even with water changes)
gH:120 (always too high...)
tank temp:72~

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):
I've had this goldfish a few years now, and his fins are never perfect becaue they're really long (no other goldfish's fins are affected). He first started with redness above his mouth, and within 2 days it became a huge red uneven sore and he could barely open his mouth. I isolated him in another tank and heated it, put a tad of salt, and used melafix as directed. After 5 days he didn't die from the sore so I readded him to the tank. At this time, his large sore was gone and it because more of an indent in his head, and there's a hole now too (so when he eats some of it escapes from his face...) (sort of like a zombie fish lol).
That almost sounds like HITH, a disease normally caused by poor water quality. Your tank is overstocked, sadly, so the poor water may be resulting from that.
The mouth fungus may also be caused by the water quality. Best to solve the root of the problem before hand.
 
He can open his mouth though, but the area still doesn't look good. He swims in place near the back of the tank facing the wall alone, in place. When he paces the tank with the other fish (when they want food), he has twitchy motions. Since I readded him his fins mainly stay against his body now too. He has no lifted scales or other spots on his body or fins.
So, my questions are:
Will he die?
Is he contagious?
If he'll live, will the sore/open hole eventually heal?

Volume and Frequency of water changes: 25% once a week if not a little more

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: I add the directed amount of aquasafe plus with water changes, plus occasionally melafix to help fish fins. I have a good sized fluval filter with... round media with holes in the middle?? I have a friend who knows much more than me about fish and he said it was good. I had carbon in the filter, but have removed it until the fish gets better.
When I extracted the fish for quarantine, I wiped all the walls of the main tank, filtered all the gravel, and removed everything in the tank seperately to give it a good scrub down (with water).
Is the tank cycled?
Tank inhabitants:I know, there's too many fish in a tank my size. I also know, that goldfish like cold and tropical like warm. But, the goldfish and everything else has been fine for years at 72~.
I have: 4 goldfish, 3 cory catfish, 2 chinese algae eaters (added November), 3 upside down catfish, 1 white cloud, 1 long fin danio, and 3 small snails. The snails are VERY important to me therefore I can't add salt to the whole tank. I have no plants because they always get eaten. I've tried many different kinds, the snails eat most of them, including moss balls. The goldfish eventually also eat the moss balls if food gets dropped in them by accident.
Yes, the tank is very overstocked. The goldfish (depending on the type, kois and comets need ponds) need at least 55gal, the cories need groups of 5+,  the CAEs will get big and aggressive, upside downs...don't know much about them XD... white clouds need groups of around 6+, so do danios.
 
I live in a basement with no natural light at all. The tank is set on a timer for about 8 hours of light and bubbles. A lot of algae builds on the walls within the last few months, but I do my best to take care of it (I lost my main cleaner snails a while back I guess that's why).
Plants combat algae, and since there are none algae has a free seat.
confused.gif

 
The only sharp things in the tank are old snail shells (like 2). I leave them in their for calcium for my current snails.

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): 2 chinese algae eaters, November

Exposure to chemicals: melafix sometimes, and aquasafe plus with water changes

Digital photo (include if possible):
4 attached:
2 before quarantine showing bubble above mouth, one before quarantine showing his fins, and one after showing the collapsed mouth area (also shows "sharp" snail shell example).
 
Thank you for your time and help!
Laura
 
Bless Him.
He sounds in a bad way.
Red sores can be columnaris or ulcers which ulcerate into a hole. Ulcers usually tend to have a circling of dead
white tissue around the outside of the sore.
Hole in the head starts off as pitting the can ulcerate into a hole.
 
If you can isolate him I would try an antibiotic like tetracycline.
I wouldn't recommend using the antibiotic in main tank as it wipes the beneficial bacteria out in your filter.
 
 

Dangerous level for Nitrate, try to keep it below 40.

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):
I've had this goldfish a few years now, and his fins are never perfect becaue they're really long (no other goldfish's fins are affected). He first started with redness above his mouth, and within 2 days it became a huge red uneven sore and he could barely open his mouth. I isolated him in another tank and heated it, put a tad of salt, and used melafix as directed. After 5 days he didn't die from the sore so I readded him to the tank. At this time, his large sore was gone and it because more of an indent in his head, and there's a hole now too (so when he eats some of it escapes from his face...) (sort of like a zombie fish lol).
That almost sounds like HITH, a disease normally caused by poor water quality. Your tank is overstocked, sadly, so the poor water may be resulting from that.
The mouth fungus may also be caused by the water quality. Best to solve the root of the problem before hand.
 
Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: I add the directed amount of aquasafe plus with water changes, plus occasionally melafix to help fish fins. I have a good sized fluval filter with... round media with holes in the middle?? I have a friend who knows much more than me about fish and he said it was good. I had carbon in the filter, but have removed it until the fish gets better.
When I extracted the fish for quarantine, I wiped all the walls of the main tank, filtered all the gravel, and removed everything in the tank seperately to give it a good scrub down (with water).
Is the tank cycled?
Tank inhabitants:I know, there's too many fish in a tank my size. I also know, that goldfish like cold and tropical like warm. But, the goldfish and everything else has been fine for years at 72~.
I have: 4 goldfish, 3 cory catfish, 2 chinese algae eaters (added November), 3 upside down catfish, 1 white cloud, 1 long fin danio, and 3 small snails. The snails are VERY important to me therefore I can't add salt to the whole tank. I have no plants because they always get eaten. I've tried many different kinds, the snails eat most of them, including moss balls. The goldfish eventually also eat the moss balls if food gets dropped in them by accident.
Yes, the tank is very overstocked. The goldfish (depending on the type, kois and comets need ponds) need at least 55gal, the cories need groups of 5+,  the CAEs will get big and aggressive, upside downs...don't know much about them XD... white clouds need groups of around 6+, so do danios.
 
I live in a basement with no natural light at all. The tank is set on a timer for about 8 hours of light and bubbles. A lot of algae builds on the walls within the last few months, but I do my best to take care of it (I lost my main cleaner snails a while back I guess that's why).
Plants combat algae, and since there are none algae has a free seat.
confused.gif

 
 
Hi Lyra,
 
My nitrates are now just below 40.
I got everything tested at the store too, everything was fine except nitrates (now fixed), and a bit of ammonia in the tap water (so started adding a bit of ammonia remover with water changes).
I now do 2 water changes a week, 25% each while filtering the gravel.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by cycling a tank... I have the fluval filter which stop debris and have media, but no carbon or anything at the moment until I resolve the issue. I use a bubbler 8 hours a day for oxygen in the water, and the tank itself has been running on "this set of water" for 2 years (minus water changes, filter changes etc).
 
The chinese algae eaters were from a friends tank, and so far have been extremely friendly / staying away from all other fish. If they become a problem in the future though, I won't have a problem donating them to someone else.
 
I added some more snails (sorry, I really like snails). Hopefully this will help with the algae a bit, and I will keep up with water changes.
 
My goldfish types are (based off http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/ftypes.html):1 veiltail, 1 commons (getting big), 1 telescope (I think he had a birth defect, some fins have always been funny and he's never grown so he's really small), and the sick comet.
 
I've posted a recent picture of him, he's eating as normal and his fins are coming back up again but you can see he's uneasy.
 
Thank you,
 
Laura
 

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