Gold Severum eggs hatching - help

[Angela’s fish]

Hi there - I am new to this forum. I have a 140 gallon tropical tank. My pair of gold severums have been laying eggs for weeks now and they have not been successful until this week. They have either been infertile eggs or eaten them themselves. This last week they laid and the eggs are now looking to be hatching. As they began hatching the parents were eating them. Since I have not done this before...I didn’t know what to do. I have a separator that I have put in and separated the parents and all other fish from the hatching eggs. They have good air circulation. What should I be doing? Have I done the right thing? What should I expect? As they hatch will they swim right away? What should I feed them? Should I keep them apart from the other fish? The parents? Thanks for any help!!!

 

[Wills]

Hi Angela welcome to the forum

With pairs of cichlids it is often just a matter of time before they get the hang of it so if this brood do not make it in any great number I wouldnt worry as it sounds like its only a matter of time before they try again. Unless you have an other tank there is not a great deal you can do, but the more they spawn they will start rearing the fry better. The fry are hard to feed in a community tank as well but they may find some sources of food, leftovers etc.

Are they the only fish in the tank? Would be great to see some pictures

Wills

 

[fozziebear]

Try adding some breeding mats or silk plants, they will tend to eat eggs and fry when they are worried or don't feel comfortable, driftwood would also be good, like wills said, new pairs will be inexperienced at first and may just eat the fry anyway, i have heard of people removing 1 fish after laying to encourage the single fish to care for the fry, but i don't keep cichlids so i don't know if it works.

 

[Angela’s fish]

I keep trying to post pics but it says they are too large! I will keep trying! I also have a cool video of them laying the eggs too which is fascinating to see how they work so beautifully together!! I do have other fish in the tank - I have a blue acara , other gold severums, bala sharks, geophagus, a kissing guarami, ghost knife fish, a few other small fish....plecostamus.

 

[Wills]

Ah right interesting, how long has the tank been going? What are the dimensions?

In my experience when cichlids pair up and start breeding in community tanks its really hard to get to work so it sounds like you have been lucky - ususally the spawning pair can turn on the other tank mates or the other tank mates eat the eggs and/or fry.

The other problem with breeding in a community tank is that initially the fry will need a lot of water changes to grow properly, especially when they start moving from fry to fish. Ideally you would be able to separate them into a decent well oxygenated tank in order to be able to keep up on very regular water changes.

Wills

 

[Angela’s fish]

Ah right interesting, how long has the tank been going? What are the dimensions?

In my experience when cichlids pair up and start breeding in community tanks its really hard to get to work so it sounds like you have been lucky - ususally the spawning pair can turn on the other tank mates or the other tank mates eat the eggs and/or fry.

The other problem with breeding in a community tank is that initially the fry will need a lot of water changes to grow properly, especially when they start moving from fry to fish. Ideally you would be able to separate them into a decent well oxygenated tank in order to be able to keep up on very regular water changes.

Wills

 

[Angela’s fish]

What I don’t know how to deal with is the fry - I’ve never had this happen before. So I have separated the fish (parents too) from the hatching fry so they would stop eating them. I can see the eggs hatching because the little tails are flying around and the eggs are coming off of the slate they were laid on. The tank has plants, slate, rocks, crushed coral (little bit) and air plates...when the fry come off the slate where do they go? Will they fend for themselves? Do I need to do anything? Just wait and see? There are no fish to worry about...but I can’t see them swimming of course...i just don’t know what the stages are to expect. Thanks for your help

 

[Wills]

When the fry become free swimming the parents would care for them for a while - its one of the interesting things about cichlids is how they raise the young. Some will care for them upto about an inch others will let them fend for them selves earlier. It sometimes takes a few attempts for fish to raise the fry successfully but once they get the hang of it a good number could survive, but if there are other fish in the tank thats when this becomes complex.

If you have separated them they will initally lay on the rock or on the substrate but will be free swimming pretty soon. They will initally eat their egg sack but you will need to feed them something like baby brine shrimp which you can get from most fish shops or there are other products like liquifry.

One thing you mentioned that concerns me is that you have crushed coral in there? This is usually used to raise the ph and gh of a tank especially if you have a low kh but most of the fish you have do best in a soft or neutral tank. Having the crushed coral in there could change your water chemistry enough to actually do harm to the baby Severums as well.

Do you know the ph and hardness of your tank?

thanks Wills

 

[Angela’s fish]

This is amazing info thank you! The crushed coral was the aquarium specialty store suggestion based on the fish I have. It the app has always been great - it’s always around 6.8 and if it fluctuates too far I use ph up or down to move it but I have only ever done that maybe twice and the aquarium has been up and running for 3 years. I do have an issue with hair algae and bought a loach thinking that would help but to no avail. Wondered if that was water quality but there does not seem to be a water quality issue...I do water changes every 2 weeks....a quarter....and a half water change probably every third time. I have a really good filtration system so I think likely the hair algae hasn’t more to do with the fact the tanknit by a large window. I try to keep the blinds closed as much as possible. There is also a small amount of crushed coral in my layered filter. The water is very very low level brackish. The fish have all seemed fine and quite happy (with the exception of one bout of cloudy eye once....with one fish). The crushed coral has been in here since set up - I don’t add new. Do you think I should change the bottom and remove it? Suppose it’s not hard to do at the half water change maybe....

 

[Angela’s fish]

Also

When the fry become free swimming the parents would care for them for a while - its one of the interesting things about cichlids is how they raise the young. Some will care for them upto about an inch others will let them fend for them selves earlier. It sometimes takes a few attempts for fish to raise the fry successfully but once they get the hang of it a good number could survive, but if there are other fish in the tank thats when this becomes complex.

If you have separated them they will initally lay on the rock or on the substrate but will be free swimming pretty soon. They will initally eat their egg sack but you will need to feed them something like baby brine shrimp which you can get from most fish shops or there are other products like liquifry.

One thing you mentioned that concerns me is that you have crushed coral in there? This is usually used to raise the ph and gh of a tank especially if you have a low kh but most of the fish you have do best in a soft or neutral tank. Having the crushed coral in there could change your water chemistry enough to actually do harm to the baby Severums as well.

Do you know the ph and hardness of your tank?

thanks Wills

Also my Kh or hardness is between 80-90

 

[Wills]

hmm this is a bit confusing I would expect your ph to be way higher than 6.8 I would have expected it to be closer to 8. Do you know what the ph of your tap water is? Its good to test it once as you open it and then let the tube stand for 24 hours and test the water again. I am also wondering what is causing your ph to fluctuate as using ph up or down is not always ideal.

Also do you know what the nitrate level is in the tank and what the nitrate levels are in your tap water? Its usually to do with that and lighting to cause algae. I only recently realised how harmful nitrate in tap water is, from my tap water it is 40ppm which was only getting higher in the tank. I got a Pozzani filter and Ive been testing the water after the filter and now it is 0. I have some LED lights that have been stimulating algae growth much more than my old light tubes and since I started pre filtering the water the growth has subsided a lot.

If its not too much hassle could you do a full set of tests on your tap water and your tank water? Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Ph and see where you get to. It might give us some answers and help you work out how best to raise your Severum fry.

Wills

 

[Angela’s fish]

hmm this is a bit confusing I would expect your ph to be way higher than 6.8 I would have expected it to be closer to 8. Do you know what the ph of your tap water is? Its good to test it once as you open it and then let the tube stand for 24 hours and test the water again. I am also wondering what is causing your ph to fluctuate as using ph up or down is not always ideal.

Also do you know what the nitrate level is in the tank and what the nitrate levels are in your tap water? Its usually to do with that and lighting to cause algae. I only recently realised how harmful nitrate in tap water is, from my tap water it is 40ppm which was only getting higher in the tank. I got a Pozzani filter and Ive been testing the water after the filter and now it is 0. I have some LED lights that have been stimulating algae growth much more than my old light tubes and since I started pre filtering the water the growth has subsided a lot.

If its not too much hassle could you do a full set of tests on your tap water and your tank water? Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Ph and see where you get to. It might give us some answers and help you work out how best to raise your Severum fry.

Wills

Yes no problem - without leaving the water for 24 hours this is the reading (knowing my nitrate is higher than I’d like because I’m worried about doing any water changes with these fry in there!!) so tank water all is as follows - nitrate 40, nitrite 0, ph 7, kh 20, gh 100. Tap water is nitrite 0, nitrate 0, ph 6, kh 0, gh 30.

I live in BC so our water is generally. It an issue I don’t think...but then again this hair algae is making me crazy!!!

 

[Wills]

In the circumstances 40ppm Nitrate is not too bad and you can take care of it quite easily.

I would imagine the issue with the hair algae is the light more than the water quality. You might have to work out how to stop more light getting in. I've used black out fabric to cover a tank before when I had it in the corner of two patio doors and that helped a lot.

If you do choose to replace the substrate, I would remove it over a number of weeks as without it your ph will go from 7 to 6 quite quickly which could shock your fish. But over all I believe your fish should benefit from having the lower ph and the fry you raise from the Severums should grow out better and healthier. If you have Geophagus I would make sure that you swap to a very fine sand as a substrate as their 'Eartheater' behaviour can cause damage if you have sharp, large or abbrasive sand or gravel. Something like play sand is perfect for them.

How are the fry doing? Are they still hatching?

I also just want to delve a bit deeper into your stocking if that is ok. We have quite similar sized tanks - mine is 135 gallons and the stock you mentioned earlier causes me some worries. When you say other gold Severums how many do you have? Then what kind of Geophagus do you have and how many do you have? I worry about the Bala Shark, the problem with these is that they just shouldnt be sold, they are a shoaling fish in the wild and swim massive migratory patterns and should get to about 16 inches. Ideally if we keep them in tanks you want something huge above 300 gallons which is still not perfect but it does prevent them banging into the glass, in tanks like ours you often see them with snub noses where they have crashed into the glass or decor as they can be quite flighty. The Ghost Knife again is a potentially massive fish getting to 20 inches. The pleco is this a common? If so you are probably ok but be aware having a big plec will have an impact on the bioload of the tank when they get up past 10 inches or so. The Kissing Gourami and Blue Acara are both still big fish but you are realistic in this tank, depending on the tank mates. Then when you say the other small fish, do you know how many of these and what kinds you have?

It may be that for long term success with the tank, as in 5 years + it may be best to rehome some of these fish, especially considering most of them are able to live more than 10 years. It would also help your odds of raising the fry and preventing too much fighting as the fish grow.

Hope that helps
Wills

 

[Angela’s fish]

This is more information than I have ever gotten which is fabulous!! Ok so first off the fry...I am not sure how they are doing. It’s day two since I’m noticed them squirming around and many of them (maybe 15) are squirming a lot more...even moving a tad around the slate. Some have fallen off the slate onto the rocks and are still flailing around. Not sure if this is normal???

As for other fish - my
Gold severums - I have 4 in total. I have 3 bala sharks. They are 3 years old and about 5 inches. They are actually so mellow!! They never hit the glass. The blue acara is a bit of an asshole. He picks on the geophagus (which I think is typical run if the mill geo - but I don’t really know actually!!) he is not got the bluish colors all through him only on his tail and under his mouth. Although the blue acara has attitude I do love him....he is beautiful and the geo holds his own. My ghost knife is about 2 years old and is also only about 6 inches - he also is extremely mellow. I have 3 plecos - one basic pleco, one spotted, and another one that I cannot remember for the life of menhis name but he has a HUGE sucker lip and is quite small....maybe 3 inches. I also have 2 black skirt tetras, 2 loaches, and one kissing guarami. I am setting up another tank right now (80 gallon) but it won’t be ready for about 2 weeks I imagine.

I think I will do a complete overhaul of my tank once these fry are dealt with and the tank is stable. Move some smaller ones...maybe even rehome some....I just need to decide which ones. Severums are my favorite!!! I also love my geo!! I have a huge love of aquariums so I can always think of alternatives too. This is a custom built tank and I love it!! The bigger the better!!!

What kinds of fish do you have??

 

[Angela’s fish]

In the circumstances 40ppm Nitrate is not too bad and you can take care of it quite easily.

I would imagine the issue with the hair algae is the light more than the water quality. You might have to work out how to stop more light getting in. I've used black out fabric to cover a tank before when I had it in the corner of two patio doors and that helped a lot.

If you do choose to replace the substrate, I would remove it over a number of weeks as without it your ph will go from 7 to 6 quite quickly which could shock your fish. But over all I believe your fish should benefit from having the lower ph and the fry you raise from the Severums should grow out better and healthier. If you have Geophagus I would make sure that you swap to a very fine sand as a substrate as their 'Eartheater' behaviour can cause damage if you have sharp, large or abbrasive sand or gravel. Something like play sand is perfect for them.

How are the fry doing? Are they still hatching?

I also just want to delve a bit deeper into your stocking if that is ok. We have quite similar sized tanks - mine is 135 gallons and the stock you mentioned earlier causes me some worries. When you say other gold Severums how many do you have? Then what kind of Geophagus do you have and how many do you have? I worry about the Bala Shark, the problem with these is that they just shouldnt be sold, they are a shoaling fish in the wild and swim massive migratory patterns and should get to about 16 inches. Ideally if we keep them in tanks you want something huge above 300 gallons which is still not perfect but it does prevent them banging into the glass, in tanks like ours you often see them with snub noses where they have crashed into the glass or decor as they can be quite flighty. The Ghost Knife again is a potentially massive fish getting to 20 inches. The pleco is this a common? If so you are probably ok but be aware having a big plec will have an impact on the bioload of the tank when they get up past 10 inches or so. The Kissing Gourami and Blue Acara are both still big fish but you are realistic in this tank, depending on the tank mates. Then when you say the other small fish, do you know how many of these and what kinds you have?

It may be that for long term success with the tank, as in 5 years + it may be best to rehome some of these fish, especially considering most of them are able to live more than 10 years. It would also help your odds of raising the fry and preventing too much fighting as the fish grow.

Hope that helps
Wills

So weirdest thing - the fry are starting to swim which is very cool and exciting! They are extremely tiny and facinaring to watch! Not swimming far or high up - still close to the bottom - you can see their eyes!!!

Meanwhile the parents in the other side of the tank, still separated, have just laid an entire other batch of eggs!!! Is this normal?? Should I do anything? The male is acting quite hostile and they are obviously in a smaller tank size since I have separated the fry....I am worried about my other fish too. Is this laying cycle normal?? I have still not set up my other tank - I just have not had the time. Do you recommend that?? Sorry to bug you again!!!