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Ash Paws
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Okay, thanks.
Gill parasites in betta? Help!
- Thread starter Ash Paws
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Ash Paws
Fish Fanatic
I read up on Swim Bladder Disease and the symptoms sound similar. What do you think?
Pence seems to also be perching a LOT on the Amazon sword leaves closest to the surface. Sometimes his fins will actually come out of the water.
I read up on bacterial infections and the symptoms are swim bladder disorder and laying sideways a lot on leaves, clamped fins, and not eating as much. He is still eating and I haven't seen any problems with his slime coat, or any strange ulcers or wounds, so that may not be a possibility. However his fins are pretty clamped which is also another symptom of bacterial infection.
It probably is swim bladder though because I think the fish has been overfed....whoops
....From now on I am definetley feeding less, starting out with fasting for a day or two.
Pence seems to also be perching a LOT on the Amazon sword leaves closest to the surface. Sometimes his fins will actually come out of the water.
I read up on bacterial infections and the symptoms are swim bladder disorder and laying sideways a lot on leaves, clamped fins, and not eating as much. He is still eating and I haven't seen any problems with his slime coat, or any strange ulcers or wounds, so that may not be a possibility. However his fins are pretty clamped which is also another symptom of bacterial infection.
It probably is swim bladder though because I think the fish has been overfed....whoops
....From now on I am definetley feeding less, starting out with fasting for a day or two.
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He is meditating
if he does it all the time then don't worry about it because that is his thing (how he sleeps).
If a fish suddenly changes behaviour or sleeping patterns, then it's time to worry. But if he has been doing that since you got him, then it is nothing to worry about.
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It's unlikely there is a problem with his swim bladder. Everyone jumps up and down about swim bladder issues because that is the first thing they think of. But in reality, fish have a very good swim bladder and they rarely have problems with them.
Over feeding does not cause swim bladder issues either. Fish that do have swim bladder issues are usually fish with deformed bodies like fantail goldfish and balloon mollies. By shortening the body they squish the swim bladder (and other internal organs) up so they no longer function properly. These fish are much more likely to have an issue with their internal organs, including the swim bladder. Your male Betta is not squished up and there are lots of other more common problems that can cause fish to have trouble swimming.
Clamped fins and lethargy (just sitting there doing nothing) is most commonly caused by poor water quality (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate or incorrect pH), and cold water. Whilst your water has no ammonia in, it may have nitrites and nitrates and these chemicals will cause these symptoms.
Keeping the ammonia & nitrite at 0ppm, and the nitrate as low as possible (below 25ppm), and keeping the pH stabile will all help to reduce the stress on the fish and reduce the chance of it developing diseases or having health issues. Keeping the water warm for tropical fish will make them comfortable and less stressed.
Bacterial & protozoan infections are most commonly found in tanks with lots of gunk in the gravel and a dirty filter, and lack of water changes. The gunk that builds up in the gravel & filter provides an ideal habitat for bad bacteria and protozoans. And doing small water changes lets them build up in large numbers where they can easily find and attack a fish. Doing big 75% water changes and gravel cleaning the substrate each week will generally prevent bacterial and protozoan infections in fish by diluting the number of disease organisms in the water, filter and gravel.
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The best treatment for fish that are not happy, is water changes. If a fish is not showing any specific disease, then do a big (75%) water change and gravel clean the substrate each day for a week. This will ensure the water quality is good, and the number of harmful pathogens in the water is low, thus allowing the fish to recover from whatever is stressing it out.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.
Make sure the temperature is correct for the species being kept.
Feed the fish a varied diet and watch them flourish
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Ash Paws
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Wow, thanks for your help. I just did a good water change today so we don't need to worry about the protozoan organisms.
Do you have any tips for water changes as far as replacing the water? I just dechlorinate tap water in a pitcher (I normally use 3 pitchers) but sometimes that isnt enough and it takes a long time. How do you do your water changes?
True, but he just started doing this about yesterday. It's really weird. NickAu said he had never seen a betta do it and it probably is not nomal.
Do you have any tips for water changes as far as replacing the water? I just dechlorinate tap water in a pitcher (I normally use 3 pitchers) but sometimes that isnt enough and it takes a long time. How do you do your water changes?
He is meditating
if he does it all the time then don't worry about it because that is his thing (how he sleeps).
If a fish suddenly changes behaviour or sleeping patterns, then it's time to worry. But if he has been doing that since you got him, then it is nothing to worry about.
True, but he just started doing this about yesterday. It's really weird. NickAu said he had never seen a betta do it and it probably is not nomal.
If he just started resting in a head down position yesterday, then it is an issue.
What is the temperature of the tank water?
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I had 3 tier stands in my fish room and the top row of tanks were filled with tap water, a dechlorinator was added and they were aerated for a week before I used the water to do water changes in the fish tanks.
For people with one small tank, get a couple of new 20 litre (5 gallon) plastic buckets and use a permanent marker to write "FISH ONLY" on the buckets. Keep these buckets by the fish tank and don't let anybody use them for anything except the fish tank.
Before you do a water change, you fill the Fish Only buckets up with tap water, add dechlorinator and put an airstone in each bucket and allow the water to aerate vigorously for about 30 minutes. You will need an air pump, airline and airstones for this. When the water is aerating in the buckets, the dechlorinator will be able to neutralise the chlorine and the dissolved gases in the water will stabilise, making the water safer for the fish.
While the buckets of water are aerating, you can use another bucket to drain the old tank water into. The dirty water can be poured onto the lawn or garden. When you have done a gravel clean and drained out some tank water, you refill the tank with the buckets of water that have been aerated.
If you have a big tank (200 litres or more), you can use a larger plastic container (100-200 litre storage container) or a clean/ new 200 litre plastic wheelie bin. Fill them with water, add dechlorinator and aerate for 30 minutes or more. Then use a small water pump (like an Aquaclear 802 powerhead) attached to a clear plastic hose (available from any hardware store) to pump the water from the container into the tank. You can use pvc pipe fittings (or black polypipe irrigation fittings) to make a U shape and attach this to the end of the plastic hose and hang it over the edge of the tank. Then you can turn the pump on, let the water pump up into the tank and turn the pump off when the tank is full.
What is the temperature of the tank water?
-------------------
I had 3 tier stands in my fish room and the top row of tanks were filled with tap water, a dechlorinator was added and they were aerated for a week before I used the water to do water changes in the fish tanks.
For people with one small tank, get a couple of new 20 litre (5 gallon) plastic buckets and use a permanent marker to write "FISH ONLY" on the buckets. Keep these buckets by the fish tank and don't let anybody use them for anything except the fish tank.
Before you do a water change, you fill the Fish Only buckets up with tap water, add dechlorinator and put an airstone in each bucket and allow the water to aerate vigorously for about 30 minutes. You will need an air pump, airline and airstones for this. When the water is aerating in the buckets, the dechlorinator will be able to neutralise the chlorine and the dissolved gases in the water will stabilise, making the water safer for the fish.
While the buckets of water are aerating, you can use another bucket to drain the old tank water into. The dirty water can be poured onto the lawn or garden. When you have done a gravel clean and drained out some tank water, you refill the tank with the buckets of water that have been aerated.
If you have a big tank (200 litres or more), you can use a larger plastic container (100-200 litre storage container) or a clean/ new 200 litre plastic wheelie bin. Fill them with water, add dechlorinator and aerate for 30 minutes or more. Then use a small water pump (like an Aquaclear 802 powerhead) attached to a clear plastic hose (available from any hardware store) to pump the water from the container into the tank. You can use pvc pipe fittings (or black polypipe irrigation fittings) to make a U shape and attach this to the end of the plastic hose and hang it over the edge of the tank. Then you can turn the pump on, let the water pump up into the tank and turn the pump off when the tank is full.
There are a few points to note from what you have said.
Pence is over 2 years old, which is quite a good age for bettas. I know people do have them for longer than this, but usually when the betta has been kept in perfect conditions.
You tell us that you have been changing filter pads frequently and not cleaning the gravel. It is likely that ammonia and nitrite increase just after the pad is changed, then drop again as the bacteria make up their numbers again. Both of these in the water will shorten a fish's life expectancy. You mention having your water tested and that ammonia is currently zero, but not what the nitrite reading was. But currently zero does not mean it has always been zero. Not cleaning the gravel turns it into a nitrate factory and we now know that nitrate above 20 shortens a fish's life expectancy. And the shop did say that there was "a good amount" of nitrate in the water.
I suspect that ammonia & nitrite in the water at times in the past combined with high nitrate have shortened Pence's life expectancy.
I know that Colin is happy with having neon tetras in the tank with Pence, but I am not. Pence should not have any tank mates except perhaps a snail. You don't mention the size of this tank but neons actually need a tank with a footprint of 24 x 12 inches - bigger than the 10 gallon you said you plan to move them into. The neons will be stressed because I suspect this tank is smaller than 24 x 12, and there are too few of them - and the biochemicals secreted by stressed fish will affect other fish on the tank.
Personally I don't think that Pence has an illness or disease, I think he is just very old.
Pence is over 2 years old, which is quite a good age for bettas. I know people do have them for longer than this, but usually when the betta has been kept in perfect conditions.
You tell us that you have been changing filter pads frequently and not cleaning the gravel. It is likely that ammonia and nitrite increase just after the pad is changed, then drop again as the bacteria make up their numbers again. Both of these in the water will shorten a fish's life expectancy. You mention having your water tested and that ammonia is currently zero, but not what the nitrite reading was. But currently zero does not mean it has always been zero. Not cleaning the gravel turns it into a nitrate factory and we now know that nitrate above 20 shortens a fish's life expectancy. And the shop did say that there was "a good amount" of nitrate in the water.
I suspect that ammonia & nitrite in the water at times in the past combined with high nitrate have shortened Pence's life expectancy.
I know that Colin is happy with having neon tetras in the tank with Pence, but I am not. Pence should not have any tank mates except perhaps a snail. You don't mention the size of this tank but neons actually need a tank with a footprint of 24 x 12 inches - bigger than the 10 gallon you said you plan to move them into. The neons will be stressed because I suspect this tank is smaller than 24 x 12, and there are too few of them - and the biochemicals secreted by stressed fish will affect other fish on the tank.
Personally I don't think that Pence has an illness or disease, I think he is just very old.
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Ash Paws
Fish Fanatic
Thank you so much!
Yes, I have had Pence since he was a fry basically, he is probably around 1-1/2 to 2 years old.
The thing is I only recently learned about the nitrogen cycle (back in May) and its a miracle Pence is still alive even though I had no idea about cycling, water changes, etc.
I have a schedule now to do 50-60% water changes every Sunday.
I've already planned to get a 10 gallon tank for my tetras and maybe get a few more that they can school with, plus maybe a couple other fish that are happy in a 10 gallon tank with tetras.
I really appreciate your guys' replies.
Thanks!
Yes, I have had Pence since he was a fry basically, he is probably around 1-1/2 to 2 years old.
The thing is I only recently learned about the nitrogen cycle (back in May) and its a miracle Pence is still alive even though I had no idea about cycling, water changes, etc.
I have a schedule now to do 50-60% water changes every Sunday.
I've already planned to get a 10 gallon tank for my tetras and maybe get a few more that they can school with, plus maybe a couple other fish that are happy in a 10 gallon tank with tetras.
I really appreciate your guys' replies.
Thanks!
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Ash Paws
Fish Fanatic
Sometimes I keep the heater on but when it gets to 80 degrees F I turn it off. Right now the water is at 78F.
I normally let it hover around 74-78.
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Ash Paws
Fish Fanatic
I realized that i messed up and pence is probably more like a year old. I think we got him in winter of 2017, so closer to 6 months.
I hope he didnt get sick because of the stress of having the tetras, when Neptune (my old ADF) was around he wasn't stressed at all really. I just want to get to the bottom of this.
I hope he didnt get sick because of the stress of having the tetras, when Neptune (my old ADF) was around he wasn't stressed at all really. I just want to get to the bottom of this.
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Ash Paws
Fish Fanatic
No, not any floating plants, just a few water hyssops (one of them is actually floating because the snail dislodged it from the gravel) and Amazon sword.
The amazon sword leaves get really close to the surface. Pence really likes perching on them and his mouth usually remains above water,
The amazon sword leaves get really close to the surface. Pence really likes perching on them and his mouth usually remains above water,
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Just keep doing daily water changes and gravel cleans for a week and see how he does.
You can add a vitamin supplement and that can help. If you can't find a fish vitamin supplement you can use a bird or reptile one. Just sprinkle it on some frozen food before feeding the fish.
Feed him a varied diet. You can give them aphids from plants like roses, small flies, mozzies, mozzy larvae, any small insect that has not been sprayed and is alive when you catch it. You can also try raw or cooked prawn/ shrimp. Remove head, shell and gut (thin black tube in body) and throw away. Then use a pair of scissors to cut the remaining prawn into small bite size pieces. Offer 1 or 2 bits at a time and let him eat. Remove any uneaten food.
You can add a vitamin supplement and that can help. If you can't find a fish vitamin supplement you can use a bird or reptile one. Just sprinkle it on some frozen food before feeding the fish.
Feed him a varied diet. You can give them aphids from plants like roses, small flies, mozzies, mozzy larvae, any small insect that has not been sprayed and is alive when you catch it. You can also try raw or cooked prawn/ shrimp. Remove head, shell and gut (thin black tube in body) and throw away. Then use a pair of scissors to cut the remaining prawn into small bite size pieces. Offer 1 or 2 bits at a time and let him eat. Remove any uneaten food.
Colin, Why do you insist on giving advice that could be fatal to fish?
If you feed a good quality pellet or even flake there is NO need to add vitamins to the food.
Dont waste you money on Vitamins.
Really? Whats safe for a bird or reptile may not be fish safe.
You do realize overdosing some vitamins could be fatal to the fish?
If you feed a good quality pellet or even flake there is NO need to add vitamins to the food.
Dont waste you money on Vitamins.
I have used bird, reptile and fish vitamin supplements for my fish and never had a problem with any of the supplements.
The reason I suggested vitamins is because the fish is unwell and vitamins can quite often help when a fish is not 100%.
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Ash Paws
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Okay, well I still feed him pellets and sometimes he'll take flakes too when I feed the tetras. They also get frozen brine shrimp and blood worms from time to time.
I think I might do more like twice a week water changes, once a day might stress the fish out and that would be using a lot of water.
The prawn shrimp sounds like a good idea. I also have tons of aphids and stuff like that on roses. (not sprayed.) Can bettas eat certain kinds of vegetables? If so what kinds?
My old betta used to love broccoli, even though I didnt think it was necessary to boil/blanch it...oops.
I think I might do more like twice a week water changes, once a day might stress the fish out and that would be using a lot of water.
The prawn shrimp sounds like a good idea. I also have tons of aphids and stuff like that on roses. (not sprayed.) Can bettas eat certain kinds of vegetables? If so what kinds?
My old betta used to love broccoli, even though I didnt think it was necessary to boil/blanch it...oops.
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