Getting Confused By The Marine World

[houndour]

I'm starting to do my research into a marine tank so I can prepare myself for costs and start saving so when I buy my own place I can get myself a marine set up.

I'm going to go for between a 75gallon and 100 gallon tank (US gallons). This will ultimately depend on space and floor (for weight).

I have a good idea of what I need now, but the prices vary so much.

It seems I can get an RO unit for anything between £75 and £1000!! A skimmer for £100 to £280...? Are there any particular brands anyone can recommend?

I think it was Navarre (apologies if it wasn't you), that said it's worth getting a refractometer rather than a hydrometer? And that Instant Ocean Sea salt isnt that good? So what am I looking forin sea salt that makes it good sea salt?

What are the ongoing costs of running a marine tank? Test kits, failing equipment, RO water (if buying), sea salt? filter replacements.

Finally have been googling around for places that build tanks or sell tanks ready set up. I've seen lots of people make journals about the plumbing and drilling holes in the tank for the sump?! Thats not for me. Anyone recommend a place that does it all for you (south east england)?

 

[Chac]

Hi there & welcome to the saltie world

For a 50 - 60g UK I would say you cant go wrong with one of the Deltec range
IMO Refractomers are defo worth the 40 ish ponds rather than getting a Hydrometer
As for salt I would recomend using Reef Crystals

What Filters are you thinking of using
You gonna be using Live Rock
Test kits I would defo recommend the Salifert Range

Pm'd as well

 

[houndour]

I've been doing some very rough calculations. Am I right to estimate that set up costs could be around the £2000 mark?

I've been reading that if I want all the corals etc then I'm looking at 6 to 8 WPG minimum...a quick look tells me I'll need 600 to 800 watts of light...£620 I would go for less, but given how I love my plants in my freshwater I know I'll want a challenge with corals so to me it seems better spending the money upfront than having to upgrade later.

I've also read to get the best skimmer one can afford? true or false?

I may try and get the tank and sump second hand, there seems to be quite a few on offer on ebay.

Anyway, I'm getting way ahead of myself, it'll be a year before I can get one, but hey it gives me plenty of time to save

Filters...no idea. I'm a bit confused on this one. Do I need 3? One each end and one for the sump?

Definitely will be getting live rock, but I think this will be an ongoing thing once the tank is set up rather than getting it all in one go.

Thanks for your help

 

[Chac]

Hi there

Have a look at this Skimmer, it is one of the most popular at the moment and being Deltec it is very good

Lighting Now that is not one of my strong suites, If you are thinking going for Softies, then you will have no need from VHO (Very High Output) Lighting, but if you are lookign to add either SPS or LPS then you will be better off with MH Lights

By Filters (if this for water movement) I think you may be meaning POWERHEADS or STREAMS, IMO I personally prefer a High water turnover of around 33 - 40 x total tank volume (but this depends on what you are thinking of keeping, coral wise), anyways, I would look in to the Seio Pump, I have just added a few of these to my tank and they are very good & a fraction the price of Tinze Streams, had to get them from Singapore so had to wait 2 - 3 weeks but well worth it

LIVE ROCK - This should be your only Biological filtration , if you use the right amount & stock in appropriate intervals - have a look at this thread I posted a while back regarding LR Click me

Oh and 2k aint far off TBH

 

[steelhealr]

Hi....as I'm out of the UK, I'll leave most of these answers to our UK members. I can help out with a few thoughts:

1) Sea salt is basically a personal choice and it depends on what others experiences have been. However, some salts DO have some reputations for certain attributes. Eg. Oceanic seems to be high in calcium and low in alkalinity. Some people prefer it if they are keeping livestock that have high calcium requirements. Overall, I don't think you'll go wrong with any of them. Most popular include Tropic Marin, Reef Crystals, Oceanic. The most negative posts I've see are with Instant Ocean and Coralife.

2) Hydrometers are plastic, rough estimates and if bubbles get stuck on the swing arm, the readings are way off. Refractometers are more precise, fun to use and will not drip SW on your floor all the time.

I think you are off to the right start by taking your time and researching. If you have the resources, cut as few corners as possible. The better the equipment you can buy, the better the system you will run. Good luck and welcome aboard. SH

 

[bunjiweb]

600-800W of light is a silly ammount of light to be contemplating. Im guessing it would be a 4ft tank? If so one of the Arcadia T5 Luminares are very good, using 4 tubes (2 white/2 blue) to output 4 x 54W, 216W. This is enough for all soft corals and most if not all SPS and LPS corals.

Other than that sounds like you are on the right tracks. Just do plenty of investigative research and buy good equipment to start with that will save you money in the long run (if you can afford it).

In south east england there are lots of shops that will help you set up but wont do all the work for you. Its better that you learn yourself by doing, this way you will know how to sort something out if it goes wrong!

Some that might be near you...

Nemo'z Aquatics,
Coral Garden Aquatics,
Seapets,
Swallow Aquatics,
Sevenoaks Tropical Marine,
Canterbury Koi & Aquatics,
Living Reef Aquatics.

There are hundreds more fish shops in London and around the South East, by far the highest density in any part of England, so have a good look around, check out Practical Fishkeeping magazines website for more help or look at the list here:

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=49879&st=0

Ben

 

[maestro]

Hello

I live in surrey too and there are some of the best marines shops in the country near here so best so always good to visit if your thinking about marine.

Nera me there is Heritage in Wallington, Knights in Godstone, World of fishes in East Grinstead and STM in sevenoaks.

Regarding buying a setup Aquamedic do complete setups, which include tank, stand, built in sump the back, protein skimmer and lights, all top quality stuff, a 4 foot percula 120 which holds 100gallon costs £1200 new or you see them 2nd hand for around half that.

Or a 75gallon 3x2x2 foot perc 90, cost £900 new or half that second hand, personally I think these systems are great for beginners and would definately recomend you look into it.

600-800 watts is too much, your water would be 100 degrees, for a 3 foot tank a single 150 or 250 hailde is fine, on a 4 foot you will need a twin unit so a 2x150 watt or 2x250 watt, If you dont wont to use a halide you can use t5 tubes.

Marine tanks dont use filters as such, the liverock holds the bacteria and the skimmer helps, all you need to do is make sure you have the rigth amount of rock which is around 1/2kg or rock per gallon of water and have plenty of circulation, circulation is a biggy with marine tanks. you need to add it all in one go

An ro unit for home use costs about £75, and will remove everything from the unit and be perfect, the more expensive ones are for commercial use and produce more water per day.

Regarding salt, you want a salt that gives a water a good ph and alkalinity and has good levels of calcium and magnesium which hard corals need, people argue which is the best but generally look for one that is designed for reef tanks and not just marine, the reef version will have higher lveles of minerals.

The best advice I can give is buy a couple of good books and really enjoy reading up and plannign your system so you can enjoy it and get it right first time.

Regarding setup costs, if you go for quality 2nd hand like I would I personally think you could have a 75gallon tank up and ready for fish for £1000, maybe less

 

[houndour]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the help. Its so daunting compared to planted tanks.

So 4 to 6 WPG is too much? I can't imagine that 2WPG is enough? I will need to do more research into lighting, but thats more my thing than sumps and protein skimmers

Regarding buying a setup Aquamedic do complete setups, which include tank, stand, built in sump the back, protein skimmer and lights, all top quality stuff, a 4 foot percula 120 which holds 100gallon costs £1200 new or you see them 2nd hand for around half that.

This sounds PERFECT I've also seen a man on ebay selling marine tanks (with sump and hole drilled), but no plumbing. Its the plumbing thats scaring me. My boyfriend wants to build the tank himself, but I don't trust him.

In south east england there are lots of shops that will help you set up but wont do all the work for you. Its better that you learn yourself by doing, this way you will know how to sort something out if it goes wrong!

Good point.

Marine tanks dont use filters as such, the liverock holds the bacteria and the skimmer helps, all you need to do is make sure you have the rigth amount of rock which is around 1/2kg or rock per gallon of water and have plenty of circulation, circulation is a biggy with marine tanks. you need to add it all in one go

ooohh. So is does this rock go in the sump and the tank (as a display)?

Thanks for the links. I shall get a couple of marine books for Xmas.

By the way, does anyone here insure their tanks?

 

[Chac]

Live Rock is mainly used in the main setup

I would defo keep an eye out on ebay for full setup's as there are always loads on there

What Type of corals are you thinking of keeping Click me , as this will tell you what lighting you will require

As for insurance, this is a tricky one, as most places will insure your tank & equipment, but not your livestock, try convincing some insurance dude that you really paid £11.50kg for a lump of Rock

 

[houndour]

Live Rock is mainly used in the main setup

I would defo keep an eye out on ebay for full setup's as there are always loads on there

What Type of corals are you thinking of keeping Click me , as this will tell you what lighting you will require

As for insurance, this is a tricky one, as most places will insure your tank & equipment, but not your livestock, try convincing some insurance dude that you really paid £11.50kg for a lump of Rock laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

So what goes in the sump? Sorry I'll read up before I ask more stupid questions.

Well the reason I want to go hi-tech for corals is I have a hi-tech planted tank and to be honest I spend more money and time on the plants than the fish. And I know the same will happen with a marine set up (but with corals)...

Do I need to think about certain corals with certain fish? Are any anemones, corals etc poisonous? I'm trying to get my boyfriend more involved this time so I will let him choose most of the fish, so should I find out what type of stock I want before planning coral? Or does it not matter? I've always wanted clowns and an anemone myself (before nemo ever existed).

 

[Chac]

1st things 1st - I wouldnt recommend anemones's for beginners as they are very sensative to changes, which your tank will go through,
There are corals that do extend sweepers & will wage chemical warefare on corals that are situated within there reach (general rule is 6" apart, but this varies with corals), I personally have seen loads of Soft coral reefs that IMO are better looking than SPS or LPS reefs, & being softies they are a lot easier to look after & are more tolerant of changes in water parameters, I personally have a mainly softie Reef (trying to fill it with Ricordia's but also have some LPS Stoney corals, but my fav's are the Ric's)

The only concideration you would need to give (apart from difficulty levels etc.) when buying Fish & Corals is to make sure that the FISH you buy are REEF SAFE & will not much there way throught you corals.

A list is defo the way to go - have a look at the LIVE AQUARIA link I added above, and decide which is more important either Coral or Fish, if you want corals then steer clear of NON REEF SAFE FISH
The other thing you can do is post your Fish/Coral list on the board for the members to have a look at & offer there experience, this will safe you heartache & money

Have a look at this site for some Sump ideas
CLICKYYY >>>Sumps<<< CLICKY

 

[Tiggs]

with Aquamedic setups be aware that there is a compromise on flexability to achive the easy setup...great on day 1 by by day 30 you realise you could have built it from scratch with what you have learnt in 30 days and have a better set up!

i have just spent about £4k on a Aquamedic set up that i now realise i could have built for a lot less had i had more faith in my ability!

be brave...save money!

T

 

[houndour]

1st things 1st - I wouldnt recommend anemones's for beginners as they are very sensative to changes, which your tank will go through,

oh ok. So are anemones for mature tanks then? Is it something I can dream of owning one day?

Thanks Chac for all your info. I'll be printing this topic off later for keeps. I will research my corals and go from there. I've got so much learning to do

Tiggs, you gave up planted and went for a marine?! Last time I saw a post of yours I thought you were getting cichlids. Hows the marine set up going then? In terms of work, do you think its easier or harder than a planted tank?

£4k?! Ok I'll be brave

 

[maestro]

I personally dont think you will be able to do it cheaper than buyign a 2nd hand aquamedic setup, the problem is that you need to have some knowledge of what you want when designign your own setup and thats very difficult if you are a beginner, fish shops dotn always give good advise either, if you do know what you are doing then designing setup is a good idea as obviosuly its tailored to suit your own needs.

Something like this on ebay looks a good buy

http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aqua-Medic-Percula-1...1QQcmdZViewItem

it doesnt show the stand but you can see the sump compartment at teh back of the tank which hides all the filtration, that tank may go for £400-500 plus you have to buy a ligth as thats is not included but you couldnt design yoru own for less than £1000


You can get corals that look like anemones and you can get corals that clowns may host liek they do with anemones so its not all bad.

 

[houndour]

I personally dont think you will be able to do it cheaper than buyign a 2nd hand aquamedic setup, the problem is that you need to have some knowledge of what you want when designign your own setup and thats very difficult if you are a beginner, fish shops dotn always give good advise either, if you do know what you are doing then designing setup is a good idea as obviosuly its tailored to suit your own needs.

Its kind of a catch 22 situation. I've read a post that says not to use books as the equipment and ideas can be old, if I google, how do I know I'm finding a reliable webpage with valid info? I'm trying not to ask too many obvious questions, as I know how annoying it is when the answers are in the stickys. You guys have been so helpful so far. It's good to be pointed in the right direction.

May I be annoying and ask if anyone can recommend books? Had a look on Amazon but some only have 1 review.

I saw that ebay tank...didn't sink in that it was an aquamedic!