General Help With My New Nano/Shrimp Tank

[Grant_F]

Hello everyone!

As the title suggests I would like some help/suggestions with setting up my newish tank. It is a 10 gallon half moon tank, rather than a typical rectangle tank. I will post a link to the exact tank and tank equipment at the bottom of the post, as well as a picture of the newly decorated tank if you would like to take a look

I am going to split this into two parts: cycling the tank and stocking the tank.

Cycling the Tank
I used this tank for about a year until my betta fish died about a week ago. So in other words, the tank was fully cycled for 1 betta fish. I did decide to redecorate completely. I changed all of the decorations as well as the gravel color. The filter cartridge was very saturated and water was spilling over it no matter how much I tried to scrub it, so I had the replace it. This likely removed most, if not all, of the good bacteria in the tank unfortunately. I tried to save some of it by only removing half of the old gravel, and just layering the new gravel on top of the old gravel. Should I treat the tank as a brand new tank that has never been cycled or can I assume that it is "half cycled" due to the old gravel. I will admit that I was a bit excited at the prospect of getting to set up a new tank, so I already got some Green Fire Tetras to start the cycling process. I only got them yesterday and I plan to check the levels of everything every night. Since I am doing a fish-in cycle I want to know how high I should let ammonia get before doing a water change. I know I should not let it get to 4 or 5 ppm because it will slow the cycle down, but should I let it get to 2 or 3 ppm before doing a water change? Another kind of general question I had was about the flow rate of the filter. From what I understand the flow rate should filter the whole tank 4-5 times per hour. The filter I have goes up to 86 gph and I have always had it at that amount. I was wondering if there is a benefit to slowing down the flow rate to 50ish gph in order to maximize the time the bacteria has to convert chemicals in the filter. I found a couple places that said something about this, but nothing definitive.

Stocking the Tank
Since I only had a betta fish, I am still using the equipment that came with the starter kit. When I was a kid my family aquarium was always a community tank with some variety of fish. I would like to do something like that with this tank. I think 10 gallons limits my options pretty drastically unfortunately. My initial thought was to get a set of small schooling fish, a stand alone fish, and a bottom feeder fish. After doing a lot of research I came to the conclusion that a bottom feeder fish in a 10 gallon tank would be very difficult find due to the typical size of the fish. This works out fine though because I discovered Cherry Shrimp. I love shrimp and think they will be much more interesting to watch than the typical bottom feeders. The color pop they will add is a plus too! Now that I was set on having some Cherry Shrimp I began trying to find compatible fish to go with them. I know the small schooling fish wont be a problem, but I was getting very inconclusive results when it came to the bigger fish. Pretty much every result was that maybe they will be ok, but maybe they wont. This is the result I found for every fish I was interested in. This led me to maybe abandon my idea for a stand alone fish and just have a larger school of small schooling fish (plus the Cherry Shrimp). Since I know there wont be any compatibility issues with this setup, I feel like this might be the best option. Considering the Cherry Shrimp will add a nice color to the tank I don't feel the need to find a larger, brightly colored fish. The question now is what kind of schooling fish, and how many? I already have some Green Fire tetras in the tank for cycling, but would like to add another species of schooling fish for more variety. If anyone has any suggestions for completely different setups I am all ears as well!

Tank and equipment - https://www.petsmart.com/fish/start...kzUJGRSUrOMabcRzJKBamEgv_SDj0sNoaAterEALw_wcB

 

[Essjay]

Since I am doing a fish-in cycle I want to know how high I should let ammonia get before doing a water change.

You need to do a water whenever ammonia and nitrite read higher than zero.

There is argument that a slower flow rate gives the bacteria more time to remove ammonia and nitrite. But as you are doing a fish-in cycle, the faster the water reaches the bacteria, the better.
I would adjust the flow rate to suit the fish.

Live plants will also help. Plants take up ammonia faster than bacteria and they don't turn it into nitrite, and floating plants, being near the tank light and CO2 in the air, are particularly good at this. It is possible to have a tank where the plants do all the work and the filter just moves the water round. If you want live plants we can give you some suggestions.


Regarding the fish, in a 10 gallon tank a shoal of green fire tetras and shrimps is fully stocked, I'm afraid, especially in a tank just 18 inches wide. Ideally these fish need a tank 2 feet long.

Aphyocharax rathbuni – Redflank Bloodfin — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com

 

[Grant_F]

You need to do a water whenever ammonia and nitrite read higher than zero.

There is argument that a slower flow rate gives the bacteria more time to remove ammonia and nitrite. But as you are doing a fish-in cycle, the faster the water reaches the bacteria, the better.
I would adjust the flow rate to suit the fish.

Live plants will also help. Plants take up ammonia faster than bacteria and they don't turn it into nitrite, and floating plants, being near the tank light and CO2 in the air, are particularly good at this. It is possible to have a tank where the plants do all the work and the filter just moves the water round. If you want live plants we can give you some suggestions.


Regarding the fish, in a 10 gallon tank a shoal of green fire tetras and shrimps is fully stocked, I'm afraid, especially in a tank just 18 inches wide. Ideally these fish need a tank 2 feet long.

Aphyocharax rathbuni – Redflank Bloodfin — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com

Thank you for the reply! I did read about the fact that longer tanks are better than taller tanks, but I was a bit confused to whether that applied to this tank. When I measure the perimeter of the curved portion of the glass it is longer than 2 feet. So doesn’t that mean they will have that distance they can swim if they follow the glass? If not though, what kind of fish would have been better for this kind of tank?

 

[Essjay]

Fish tend to swim in straight lines rather than round curves, so it's from one side to the other or even front to back. Generally speaking, yes the longer the tank the better as it gives the fish more swimming length per volume.

For this tank, fish that grow to around an inch long. But which fish also depends on the hardness of your water.
For hard water, endlers - males only as females are bigger and will have a lot of fry. Even just females will if they've been kept in a tank with males at the store as they can store sperm.
For soft water, ember tetras, one of the Boraras species such as chili rasboras.

But it would have been easier to do a fishless cycle before getting any fish - either with ammonia or plants. You will have some bacteria from when you had a betta but growing more with ammonia, or using live plants would make it easier for yourself instead of daily testing and water changes whenever ammonia/nitrite are more than zero.

 

[Sgooosh]

Thank you for the reply! I did read about the fact that longer tanks are better than taller tanks, but I was a bit confused to whether that applied to this tank. When I measure the perimeter of the curved portion of the glass it is longer than 2 feet. So doesn’t that mean they will have that distance they can swim if they follow the glass? If not though, what kind of fish would have been better for this kind of tank?

Fish tend to swim in straight lines rather than round curves, so it's from one side to the other or even front to back. Generally speaking, yes the longer the tank the better as it gives the fish more swimming length per volume.

For this tank, fish that grow to around an inch long. But which fish also depends on the hardness of your water.
For hard water, endlers - males only as females are bigger and will have a lot of fry. Even just females will if they've been kept in a tank with males at the store as they can store sperm.
For soft water, ember tetras, one of the Boraras species such as chili rasboras.

But it would have been easier to do a fishless cycle before getting any fish - either with ammonia or plants. You will have some bacteria from when you had a betta but growing more with ammonia, or using live plants would make it easier for yourself instead of daily testing and water changes whenever ammonia/nitrite are more than zero.

yeah they might just swim along the diameter...

what are your ph gh levels? this way we can give better suggestions

 

[Byron]

Concur with @Essjay and would add that if the "green fire" tetra is the fish she linked, it is prone to fin nipping itself and other fish. A larger group (10+) can alleviate some of this but not all, but here the tank size hampers things. Any chance you can return these fish? The "nano" species essjay mentioned would work, but not obviously with the present inhabitants. And this return would also allow proper cycling. The filter is another issue, with nano fish in small tanks you want minimal water movement.

 

[Grant_F]

For this tank, fish that grow to around an inch long. But which fish also depends on the hardness of your water.
For hard water, endlers - males only as females are bigger and will have a lot of fry. Even just females will if they've been kept in a tank with males at the store as they can store sperm.
For soft water, ember tetras, one of the Boraras species such as chili rasboras.

How many individuals would you suggest once I decide on a species? Also, what is the consensus on the best place to buy fish? I don't live in an area with a dedicated Aquatic store nearby

 

[Grant_F]

yeah they might just swim along the diameter...

what are your ph gh levels? this way we can give better suggestions

I don't currently have a gh test kit yet, it's on the way. I did look at the water quality report for my water source and these were the relevant values I found
Hardness as Ca/Mg: 8.49 ppm
Total alkalinity: 463 ppm
Dissolved solids: 603 ppm

I know that the Ca/Mg value is what gh refers to, not sure what total alkalinity or dissolved solids would be or if they matter. Of course that isn't going to be my exact value, but it shouldn't be any higher than 8.49 ppm.

 

[Grant_F]

Concur with @Essjay and would add that if the "green fire" tetra is the fish she linked, it is prone to fin nipping itself and other fish. A larger group (10+) can alleviate some of this but not all, but here the tank size hampers things. Any chance you can return these fish? The "nano" species essjay mentioned would work, but not obviously with the present inhabitants. And this return would also allow proper cycling. The filter is another issue, with nano fish in small tanks you want minimal water movement.

I can return the fish as long its within 14 days. Would it be a really big deal to keep them though? I know that they should have a longer tank, but is it going to really affect them once they are full grown? I think I am probably leaning towards returning them, but I would like to understand every option.

 

[Essjay]

Alkalinity is what water companies call KH. Yours is very high. KH buffers pH against changes - the higher the KH the harder it is for the pH to change.

Dissolved solids sounds like what fishkeepers call total dissolved solids or TDS. This is everything dissolved in the water.

The hardness sounds very low, unusual considering the very high KH. It will be interesting to see what the test kit on order makes of it. However, I have not seen the unit Ca/Mg ppm before.
Most hardness test kits work by adding the reagent one drop at a time and looking for a colour change. When GH is below 1 dH/18 ppm the first drop shows the end colour rather than the start colour, something to look for when you do the test.



I would seriously think about returning the tetras. As Byron said, they are fin nippers and in a small tank they are likely to do this more often.
If you do decide to return them and get more suitable fish, I would go for 1 shoal of around 10, species depending on exact hardness. These small fish always do better in a group larger than 6. If you do return them, think about getting some ammonia or ammonium chloride to check if there are enough bacteria left from when you had the betta, and grow some more before getting new fish.

 

[Byron]

I can return the fish as long its within 14 days. Would it be a really big deal to keep them though? I know that they should have a longer tank, but is it going to really affect them once they are full grown? I think I am probably leaning towards returning them, but I would like to understand every option.

This is a very serious issue, the tank size and the numbers in the group of a species. Each species of fish has specific inherent behaviours along with requirements (water parameters, environment, etc) that are part of the genetic makeup for the species. The fish naturally "expects" these things, and when absent the fish has stress which leads to other problems, frequently disease, and a shorter life. The fish are being harmed by not having around them the conditions they expect.

Scientific studies conducted on species show that the number of the species has a significant effect on aggression. Fish that are aggressive, even mildly so as in the case of the green fire tetras, will have heightened aggressive tendencies. Fish species that are normally peaceful develop aggressiveness. This increased aggression is the primary way a fish can react to what it considers a bad situation. When the tank space is too small for the fish to "be itself," this too affects its behaviours more. The studies have even shown that fish under this stress from having too few of the species have a lower desire to feed. Clearly there is a major impact on the fish's well-being from these issues.

This species is much too active to be in this small a space. Plainly put, it will not work, and the fish will suffer as a result. We need to understand the inherent expectations and requirements of the species, and then be able to provide them, if we want healthy fish.

 

[Grant_F]

The hardness sounds very low, unusual considering the very high KH. It will be interesting to see what the test kit on order makes of it. However, I have not seen the unit Ca/Mg ppm before.

From what I understand through research, Ca/Mg (Calcium/Magnesium) is what makes up the majority of the general hardness reading. If that is the case, I'm guessing that my GH reading is going to be similar to the 8.49 ppm. I will be interested to see what the test says.

I would seriously think about returning the tetras. As Byron said, they are fin nippers and in a small tank they are likely to do this more often.
If you do decide to return them and get more suitable fish, I would go for 1 shoal of around 10, species depending on exact hardness. These small fish always do better in a group larger than 6. If you do return them, think about getting some ammonia or ammonium chloride to check if there are enough bacteria left from when you had the betta, and grow some more before getting new fish.

I decided that I am going to return them today and do a fishless cycle. I really liked the Chili Rasboras you mentioned. Since they only get 0.7 inches long would I still only get 10, or would they benefit from being in a bigger school?

 

[Essjay]

With chili rasboras, you could have more than 10. Tiny fish like this always do better in big shoals. I'd go for 15-ish.

If your hardness really is 8.49 ppm, the test kit will read it as zero - testers usually measure in dH with one drop drop of reagent equalling 1 dH. 8.49 ppm is 0.5 dH.
Did you find that number given as the hardness or in the water quality report? I ask because hardness as ppm in fishkeeping means mg/l calcium carbonate not mg/l calcium/magnesium.

 

[Grant_F]

With chili rasboras, you could have more than 10. Tiny fish like this always do better in big shoals. I'd go for 15-ish.

If your hardness really is 8.49 ppm, the test kit will read it as zero - testers usually measure in dH with one drop drop of reagent equalling 1 dH. 8.49 ppm is 0.5 dH.
Did you find that number given as the hardness or in the water quality report? I ask because hardness as ppm in fishkeeping means mg/l calcium carbonate not mg/l calcium/magnesium.

That was the number I found in the water quality report. I'm extremely impatient when it comes to stuff like this, so I wanted to see if I could get an answer before I got the test kit. I'll definitely have to wait for the kit though. Are the Chili Rasboras going to be fine with Cherry Shrimp in regards to water hardness? I know the Rasboras prefer softer water and the Shrimp require harder water. There is an overlap in their preferred levels it seems, but since I have never really worried about water hardness before I am not sure how likely it is that the level will be in a good enough spot for both species.

 

[Slaphppy7]

603 TDS?....is this well water?....that's liquid rock, lol

Concur with the above on stocking...