Gah... Apprx. 10 Fry Dead In 24 Hrs

[lljdma06]

Isn't it at 2-3 weeks or so when they start forming the labyrinth organ? Could it be that the surface air temp was too cold, and they caught a chill? I haven't bred them, but from what I've read, the tank needs to be tightly covered and the air temperature warm and humid for this organ to form properly. The snail munching on the fry could be after the fact. I'm just shooting questions into the air, trying to pinpoint a possible cause since water conditions have been ruled out.

This is common myth, Dr.Lucas has since made public that the *real* reason is that it helps maintain a stable temperature in the tank. Although this makes me wonder.

Makes me wonder too if it's truely only a myth? I mean the labyrinth organ is quite important, if it didn't form correctly, what would be the consequences, and what factors would hinder it's development? Would betta fry in Thailand have to worry about such things? I'm sure betta fry in Thailand have a lot to worry about. I mean the average daily temperature in Thailand, when I did the search on Google is never lower than 30C, which is around 85 degrees. I assume, it's a tropical climate, more so than FL anyway, so the difference between day and night temperatures would not fluctuate very much, say maybe 10-15 degrees farenheit. Also, do bettas breed year-round in Thailand or only during the warmest months of the year? If they did that, the betta fry in the wild would never have to worry about breathing in cold air, and indeed the labyrinth theory would be a myth. I wonder what Dr. Lucas based his study on?

Now, when you breed in captivity, factors can change. In an indoor environment, especially in an area that needs heat to maintain a constant indoor temperature of say 75 farenheit. The temperature may reach 75, but the humidity levels will be vastly different, then in an environment, say Thailand, where humidity is naturally high. I know, for example, in IL we have days in the Winter when the humidity drops to 10%, which matches the conditions in the Sahara dessert, and is quite harmful for prolonged periods. As a singer, maintaining a comfortable humidity level is extremely important and I have a humidifyer running all winter. Perhaps, even if the room temperature is a comfortable 75, perhaps the humidity level in the room housing the betta fry is not at the comfortable level, which is between 25-50%, which I still find to be too large a margin. Running heat and running air conditioning both have this drying effect on the environment, and it would be interesting to note how betta fry do in each of these conditions.

I'm just thinking aloud at this point, but it would be interesting to see how the development of the betta's labyrinth organ figures into all of this, especially with bettas raised in an indoor environment. I wonder what Dr. Lucas based his conclusions on and has a systematic study on this subject has ever been done?

By the way, Bre B, sorry I totally hijacked your thread. I'm glad your fish are doing better.

 

[wuvmybetta]

I have no clue, I just remember reading it in one of his articles somewhere. The bettas in Thailand most likely breed during the warmest months of the year. To me, the notion of breathing in cooler air and dropping dead is a bit far fetched, I just don't believe it (talking room temp water and room temp air) BUT if the tank is being heated and the air is much,much cooler...then maybe so.


Bre, you might just need to invest in a new heater, yours sounds faulty and that's dangerous for you as well as the fish. I'm glad that you've had no deaths since, maybe it was just a strange die off, the floating still strikes me as odd though. That's why I'm assuming it has something to do with lack of oxygen in the water.

 

[Bre_B]

Yeah, unfortunately this decided to happen RIGHT when i went into debt (accidentally overchanged with my debit card... i owe $150 to the bank not to mention car insurance and cell phone bill *twitch* a couple hundred right there) and I barely have enough to get me through the rest of the week... I'm HOPING desperately everything will be sorted out for next weekend so i can get a better heater (i hate how things have to happen all at once!), and this time i think i will invest in a better one instead of going along with the whole "This ones cheaper, itll do" thing I'm also hoping to pick up another airpump so that i can have one going in each corner of the tank... it worries me that if its the airpump thats helping... the other side isnt getting any of it. So yeah, im gunna have an airpump set up at both sides.


also i find this strange: The babies who are alive seem normal, but whenever i find a new dead one, hte spine seems all bent and weird.... but I keep looking at my babies, seeing no prob, then suddenly once one dies it has a problem... Do you think its unlikely that this is developing and killing them in a short period of time, or is it more likely that im just missing these deformities until they die? It's been quite a large number, too, like 10 of the babies out of the 20 or so that have died (possibly more) have had this. One alarmingly so.

 

[wuvmybetta]

I had a spawn once that had a major die off very similar to what you've been describing. It was one of my metallic spawns, I swear everytime I came in the fishroom there were a few dead for several days, it was so heartbreaking I attributed it to one of several things, first.....the cold. They were by a window in the middle of winter so they *might* have gotten too cool at night OR it was from some hair dye that I might have had on my hands, even though I scrubbed them, I assumed maybe I didn't scrub hard enough. But their spines crooked just like you're describing, so maybe it IS the cold.... I've been blaming the hair dye all of this time because of the crooked spines. That entire spawn died except three, and out of those three one of the boys has a crooked spine to this day.


A heater is well worth the extra $$, but shop around for a good deal. I totally understand being broke, when it rains- it pours.

 

[Bre_B]

oh GOOD... that sounds weird, saying good, but i'd LOVE To know that at least some of them will live once the temp goes up... which, i should add, it has raised a few degrees, and i noticed that the healthier ones tend to swarm around the heater.... so hopefully it was just the the cool air was preventing hte heater which was then set at 80 to actually get that warm.... I am still going to get a new one, though, just because i would rather be safe about it...

that would also explain why all the dead ones were around the edges of the tank, where i bet the water may have been the coolest from the outside temp... I'm just now wrapping a towel around the tank hopefully to stop any breezes, etc, and maybe help warm it up.

i found 2 more dead today... but 2 in one day now seems like an accomplishment!


im thinking of getting a space heater for my room... ill probably do that so this wont happen again... keep my room nice and warm, keep my fish nice and warm!


*is feeling much better now that we may have found a conclusion*

 

[wuvmybetta]

I've found that a space heater is the easiest answer. I rely on mine to keep the jars AND the tanks warm, and it does.

By the way, I meant to add, you can just split your airline tubing with a gang valve and use one air pump coming out of two hoses. You'll just need more airline tubing and a plastic valve, maybe two dollars worth of material. I've had one air pump running for five tanks before.

 

[lljdma06]

I have no clue, I just remember reading it in one of his articles somewhere. The bettas in Thailand most likely breed during the warmest months of the year. To me, the notion of breathing in cooler air and dropping dead is a bit far fetched, I just don't believe it (talking room temp water and room temp air) BUT if the tank is being heated and the air is much,much cooler...then maybe so.

But my main focus is not air temperature, per se, more humidity level. The more I think this through, the more I hypothesize (sp) that it has more to do with maintaining proper humidity levels. They don't necessarily go hand in hand, you can have a cold, humid day, and a hot dry one vis versa. Say 72 degrees at 85% humiditiy could be better than 77 degres at 25% humidity.

It would be interesting to see if breeders have done research on this. I will shut up about it now. Though in addition to a space heater, I would also consider running a humidifyer. If it does nothing for the fish one way or another, it may make you feel better, as running space heaters can be quite drying. There are days when I wake up and cannot even phonate because the air has been so dry that night. Running my humidifyer has been a great help for me.

 

[Bre_B]

I've found that a space heater is the easiest answer. I rely on mine to keep the jars AND the tanks warm, and it does.

By the way, I meant to add, you can just split your airline tubing with a gang valve and use one air pump coming out of two hoses. You'll just need more airline tubing and a plastic valve, maybe two dollars worth of material. I've had one air pump running for five tanks before.

i totally forgot about gang valves, but yeah i was probably gunna end up doing that lol my boyfriend was wanting to get one for us at walmart.

and also, about your theory, lljdma06 (thats a toughy is there anything shorter i can call ya, lol) I'm also putting some extra coverage now. My cover was bringing humidity the past few times, but more htan likely now in the winter i should put some extra stuff on just in case, so im going to put some plastic wrap along part of the opening just to be on the safe side.


I would also like to know if anyones done any research on this, and id love to know why their backs get so bent because of it (if thats why they are bending)

 

[lljdma06]

and also, about your theory, lljdma06 (thats a toughy is there anything shorter i can call ya, lol).

Sorry, I just realized how much my user name sounds like a bloody planet, like from Aliens or something where a vicious man-eating acid-blooded alien resides. If you wanna shorten it, llj is great.