Fungus? Ich? Fin Rot? Bite?

ClownLurch

Fish Gatherer
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All water tests normal.
50-60% WC and Gravel Clean every weekend.
Nothing new added since long before Xmas.
Seperate nets, Turkey baster, scraper, tongs etc from species tank.

Id not lost a fish from the community tank for months until ten days ago. When a Medaka was found floating with no visible damage so I did an immediate 80%WC and gravel clean.
No problems until yesterday when the Medaka head count was low and one was struggling with a shortened tail fin. I removed the hood to find another Medaka floating dead again with tail fin damage but no other visible problems.
So I did another immediate 80% WC and GC. I also removed the big piece of bog wood in the tank centre to allow me to observe goings on more easily. This seems to have spooked the WCMMs who were weirdly gathered at one end seemingly staring at their reflections in the tank side which had previously been obscured by small bog woods with attached Java fern. They also had lost colour and we’re definitely acting strangely.
The six Medakas were acting normally, two Guppies acting normally while one seemed to have struggle swimming horizontally which hadn’t been noticeable in recent days (possible swim bladder problem?), he was found dead this morning so I did another 80%WC and gravel clean.
Only weirdness now was from the WCMMs and I noticed one had torn tail fins and a white mark on its flank, while doing another WC I attempted to photograph it when the brother of a previous tank psycho bully guppy swam up and bit at injured WCMM. The only pic I managed was just prior to the bite but I’m the judge AND jury round these parts and I’m a hanging one. We won’t be having any more trouble from him, his brother moved four doors away into the old boy on the corners tank but he’s not getting that luxury because while I was tracking him a few mins later he attempted to bite another WCMM.

Anyway thanks for sticking with this and does anyone think the flank white mark is caused by a bite or is it ich or some other problem?
Mine are all temperate fish does @Colin_T much vaunted heat and salt treatment work on them as opinion even on here seems to have varied in the past.
Any ideas?
Heres the pics of white mark and guppy going in for the bite. Apologies for qualpity as it was lit by a temp light. Third pic was first taken and it shows the mark best.
 

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Get your replies in ASAP as Cecil B DeMille is already casting the opening post on this thread. Apologies for its size.
 
Worst WCMM now unable right itself. Laying upside down on substrate. Twas one who’d been attacked on film. Clove oil time I think. Tail fin less than 50% of what it was.
Anothers looking ropey. None of em seem happy.

Does heat increase and/or salt work with temperate fish?
 
Added sea salt 6 heaped tablespoons for 120L tank. Upped temp to 24 and turned up both sponge filters.
The WCMM have perked up. It’s the first time there’s been more than two away from the tank bottom for over 48hrs.
Id lost three fish in nine months since returning to this lark after 22yrs. Now seven in 12 days.
Tiring isn’t it?
I was offered some free rosy loaches, black corydoras and zebra danios last month but said I couldn’t take them all as I’ve not got the tank room.......looking like famous last words.
 
@Colin_T
Does adding sea salt and raising heat work with temperate fish?
(White Clouds, Medaka, Guppy).
I notched heat up a bit more last night.

ESHA Fin Rot medicine added last thing last night. Tank gets a weird green tinge. A bit like The Fog film by John Carpenter when it rolls in from the sea.
 
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I'm sorry you're going through this! I have no idea what's happening in your tank I'm afraid, and weird that no one else has responded!

@Colin_T @Essjay @Slaphppy7
Thanks.
No one else probably does either! Or they’ve not got the spare hours to get through the original post.

I remembered late last night that two WCs ago I refilled without putting the jug beneath the python and the sand was blasted all over the place probably releasing bad stuff from in the sand into the water. Twas cloudy for hours. If that happens again I’m doing a huge WC immediately. Twas the weekend of a family funeral so I think I wasn’t fully concentrating.


Im working on an attachment to hold a jug or container on to the end of the python when refilling to prevent this. I’m thinking one of those baby/kids cups that have two handles-cable ties-some sort of collar to clamp it in position on the shoulders of the pipe where it meets the hose.
 
Looks like some serious biting damage which has started to heal (the white bits). The constant harrassment usually makes the victim try and hide and they end up not eating and generally stressed out. Not sure theyd die just from being bullied, depends on the extent of the attack.
Removing the bully sounds like a plan.. but will another one now step up to the task? Do you need more numbers, and also consider m/f ratios?
If theres no sign of fungal or bacterial infection (red streaks around the bitten area) then I wouldn't bother with heat or salt, just clean water.
 
Thanks for replying mbsqw1d.
The bully has been clove oiled. He and his brother were founding fathers of the tank and bullied two other guppy founding fathers until his brother was removed and the old boy on the corner with the 6’ livebearer tank took him in. I wouldn’t want to ask him to take in a biter tbh or ask a LFS too either.
He had been behaving himself since but having seen him try to bite the flanks of two WCMMs and lost three Medakas (two with fin damage) recently I’d had enough of him.
Im down to one guppy now. Once this is sorted I think I’ll get a few more rather than rehome him.


Theres definite fin damage on a few other WCMMs but I’m not sure if it’s biting or fin rot.
I think I’ll keep up small daily WCs to freshen up water/remove any possible disease/remove salt. Turn temp back down gradually over the next few days.

There were 12 WCMMs and 1 bully. Would they all be bullied? They were all hiding which made me think they may be all sick.
WCMMs have coloured up overnight but still not back to normal. They’re no longer hiding on tank bottom in the corners behind plants and are now on bottom in middle out in the open. Which is still not normal but an improvement on recent days.
If this is because of the biters removal or ESHA fin rot medicine or salt/heat I don’t know. I’ll carry on with fin rot medicine as it’s only until tomorrow.
I’m hoping it’s because of the bullys removal tbh. I may have to start asking future additions for references and a CV.
 
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The fish have fungus, which gets into open wounds and sores. The sores might be from the bully fish or something else.

They also appear to have slightly bulging eyes, which can be from poor water quality or a bacterial, protozoan on viral infection.

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Did you add anything to the tank in the 2 weeks before they started dying?

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Salt should deal with the fungus. Heat can help a bit if the temperature is really cold, but going from 22-24C probably won't make much difference. However, since you have raised it, leave it there for a month or so before reducing it, just so the fish can recover from this and regain their strength before the temp is lowered.
 
@Colin_T Nothing added since approx last November. I keep heater set to 20 but house raises temp to 22-23 over winter.

More bad news. Everything seemed to be improving. Until I looked in for the first time in an hour.
One dead Medaka floating midwater with no visible fin problems or anything else. Pics to follow.
The two WCMMs with the worst fin problem are now lying on their sides on the bottom breathing heavily.

Ive just taken a water sample which I’ll test shortly.

Ive just added the second days dose of Essa 2000 Fungus, Finrot and Bacteria Treatment. 10 of 15 drops targeted at the side they’re lying on. No carbon in filter btw as its two foam filters
 
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New Medaka pic as originals weren’t the best:
Theres a slight red ring on the first pic (LH flank) just behind belly near to spine that may be a bite mark?
 

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Two WCMMs still on lying on sides and breathing.


Just rechecked tank diary and there’s no FS (filter squeeze) listed at last but one WC entry. That’s the WC when I accidentally python blasted sand everywhere resulting in a cloudy tank for most of the day. I may have squeezed the foam filters (2xdouble barrelled with ceramics canisters beneath) but as it’s not listed I can’t be sure.
Could that cloudy water/gunk be responsible for infecting bites on flanks and fins?
 
1 WCMM dead when I went back. Twas the one that’d been moving the least of the two. So the other got clove oiled to put it out of misery.
Theres now nine left. Two of which show noticable fin damage but nowhere near the extent of the three dead. Theyre all swimming around a couple of inches above the substrate which until this week wasn’t something I’ve noticed before.
Two days of three recommended of ESHA 2000 Fungal, fin rot and bacteria medicine now administered.

Im gonna do a WC and GV soon. How big is the question? 25%? 50%?, 75%?
When I do I’ll add the % equivalent of ESHA and salt.
 

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