Frustrating advice for newcomers to the fish world

[itiwhetu]

Ok, I'm in a Covid-19 lock down and have time to think.
Tell us what is the most frustrating advice you get off this forum site. Hopefully that will help us so called experts or experienced fish keepers some idea of how to help those new to the hobby to become more confident and more informed. I think sometimes we become to long winded and give way to much detail rather than sticking to the basics.
What do the new to the world of fish keeping want to here from us.

 

[imw]

Ok, I'm in a Covid-19 lock down and have time to think.
Tell us what is the most frustrating advise you get off this forum site. Hopefully that will help us so called experts or experienced fish keepers some idea of how to help those new to the hobby to become more confident and more informed. I think sometimes we become to long winded and give way to much detail rather than sticking to the basics.
What do the new to the world of fish keeping want to here from us.

Hi,

IMO it seems some people just throw any answer out to see if it sticks, on my recent post about fish loss most people asked about test results, but they had been posted in my opening thread - confused .com

ATB

 

[ClownLurch]

The most frustrating thing on this forum is people not having the following in their signatures.
A/ Tap water DH/KH/PPM/PH
B/ Tank dimensions/capacity (if one or two only)
C/ Tank temp.
D/ Tank occupants.

Itd certainly save a lot of too and froing in emergency threads.

There seems a reluctance to do this by both regulars and newcomers alike. I can only surmise this is because a lot more posters are keeping fish in unsuitable circumstances than are prepared to admit it.

There. I’ve said it.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Hi,

IMO it seems some people just throw any answer out to see if it sticks, on my recent post about fish loss most people asked about test results, but they had been posted in my opening thread - confused .com

ATB

People who respond mainly do know what they're talking about. What makes it difficult is when those asking questions give inaccurate info.
Water parameters are the key to all issues experienced in a tank and all responders will need to know what all of the water parameters are in the tank, as well as other details, such as tank size and set-up, stocking levels and fish kept.
Too many of those asking questions of the Forum are ignorant of these details and either guess or provide basic untruths. Many also get irritated by being asked the questions by Forum members, especially when they aren't capable of providing the answers and/or lack the understanding as to why these are important.

The Forum has a very obvious Useful Links section, including Cycling a Tank.

All that said, whilst a lot of definite and indisputable science is present in our hobby, with real facts involved, there is also an element of 'art', which tends to blur the edges a little. Add to that the detail that this is an international community and the 'art' element differs in SE Asia differ for fish-keepers in Europe, or the US.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Ok, I'm in a Covid-19 lock down and have time to think.
Tell us what is the most frustrating advise you get off this forum site.

There are facts and there are beliefs. The two are not the same, but it is often difficult to discern between the two when people respond to questions.
Some of this is down to those posting not being able to distinguish between the two, or simply a communication issue, where we lack the literacy and/or vocabulary to state that what we are saying is a belief based on... or is a fact, as evidenced by...
That said, what would be unhelpful would be for us to insist on properly referenced articles, using perhaps Harvard referencing, to support our arguments/decisions.

 

[itiwhetu]

There are facts and there are beliefs. The two are not the same, but it is often difficult to discern between the two when people respond to questions.
Some of this is down to those posting not being able to distinguish between the two, or simply a communication issue, where we lack the literacy and/or vocabulary to state that what we are saying is a belief based on... or is a fact, as evidenced by...
That said, what would be unhelpful would be for us to insist on properly referenced articles, using perhaps Harvard referencing, to support our arguments/decisions.

That is a nice idea but takes the art out of fish keeping, remember that this hobby is about experiences and everybody has a different story to tell. We live all over the world with different conditions no Harvard reference can allow for that.

 

[Spyro]

Ok, I'm in a Covid-19 lock down and have time to think.
Tell us what is the most frustrating advise you get off this forum site. Hopefully that will help us so called experts or experienced fish keepers some idea of how to help those new to the hobby to become more confident and more informed. I think sometimes we become to long winded and give way to much detail rather than sticking to the basics.
What do the new to the world of fish keeping want to here from us.

Any advice that follows this pattern:

Hi,
I have xx gallon tank, PH 7.4. Amm, Nit, Nitrate all zero. Temperature 25c
And I have 2 fish + 8 this fish + 4 this fish + 3 snails.
And these 3 plants, and these 3 plants
Blah, blah..

Answer:
What are your water parameters? Have you tested for Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrites? What sort of fish you have in Aquarium?
Do you have heater?
We can't help you if we don't tell us your water parameters, etc.

Then go on to offer solution, despite clearly not bothering to read the question.
Your problem is bad water quality, you should get some real plants and you should blah, blah, blah because blah blah....

And this happens so often, sometimes even multiple times on same thread.
I can't decide if it's frustrating or funny any more

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

That is a nice idea but takes the art out of fish keeping, remember that this hobby is about experiences and everybody has a different story to tell. We live all over the world with different conditions no Harvard reference can allow for that.

Agreed.
However, if we were able to get into the habit of saying 'I believe that...', rather than stating stuff as definite facts, it might help.
When we do state definite facts, then facts they must be and some evidence that they are facts should be provided.
A compromise would be to say something along the lines of 'I believe...based on my experience of....' with ' I also understand that others share my belief, as seen here...(provide YouTube link or reference or whatever).'

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Did I not see a handy form for all those asking a question, containing all of the info we might need?
If there is such a thing, then could it be made more obvious?

 

[Essjay]

It's here, in the Emergencies section

Start Here With Your Emergency

What Others Need to Know to Help You When posting a request for help can you please include the following info 1. Water parameters. (ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, PH, temp', Hardness etc) 2. A full description of the fishes symptoms. 3. How often you do water changes and how much. 4. Any...

www.fishforums.net

The trouble is that problems are often posted in other forums so members don't see that.

 

[Colin_T]

Did I not see a handy form for all those asking a question, containing all of the info we might need?
If there is such a thing, then could it be made more obvious?

There are some stickies at the top of this page and the bottom sticky has a list of questions and people can copy & paste it and answer the questions.

Tropical Fish Emergencies

Need help right away? Then post up here!

www.fishforums.net

Start Here With Your Emergency

What Others Need to Know to Help You When posting a request for help can you please include the following info 1. Water parameters. (ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, PH, temp', Hardness etc) 2. A full description of the fishes symptoms. 3. How often you do water changes and how much. 4. Any...

www.fishforums.net

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Perhaps the link being (relatively obvious) in Emergencies only doesn't help.
Given that it is such essential info, perhaps it could be reviewed and stuck everywhere?

I suppose we could also insist that the form is completed before anyone responds, unless that response is to provide a link to the form.

For those in crisis who can't be bothered to answer the questions, then perhaps they are the ones who would ignore or argue against the answers given anyway and cannot be helped.

 

[ClownLurch]

The stickies are great but if everyone had their parameters in signatures then newish members could be encouraged to do so more easily.
Itd save EVERYONE a bit of time.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

The stickies are great but if everyone had their parameters in signatures then newish members could be encouraged to do so more easily.
Itd save EVERYONE a bit of time.

I hear you, but I'd personally see little point in adding my parameters to my signature.
Assume my signature contains my current parameters.
Then I suddenly have a load of sickly/dying/dead fish.
If there's a crisis, then I suspect my parameters will have changed and it would be more relevent to include those in my post and to keep on including them until things returned to normal.

Or would I just say 'Help' in my post and keep on changing my signature?

Looking at your signature, 19dh/340ppm means nothing to me and PH is not the same as pH. I assume 'temperate 22-24c' tells me that your temperature fluctuates between 22℃ and 24℃?

 

[DoubleDutch]

What I think is annoying is people do a (false) selfdiagnose, allready start treating based on that and then start asking questions cause the fish behave so weird. WITHOUT ANY PIC or info.

Question " "I think my fish have Ich, I raised the temp, used salt, have added an and Ich-med" and now they're on deads door. What to do?"