Frustrated!

[M'al-finny]

So, in the midst of refilling my 55 gal after a big water change (about 60%,) I saw the dead danio. The living room was sopping, because I am refilling the tank 2 gallons at a time. 33 gallons to refill, 2 gallons at a time. That's 17 trips to the sink.

I saw the danio and thought I had killed it by pouring the water in with too much force. I was horrified and heartbroken.

Turns out that the improvised cover for the wet/dry or sump or trickle filter cover had failed and he had spent the day swimming around in the sump. Hubby tried to get him out by scooping and/or netting on several occassions and spent upwards of 45 minutes total trying to get the fish out. (He did get another fish out successfully.) Eventually, he gave up and left the fish in the sump.

Well, fish apparently got sucked through the pump, past the backflow inhibitor and back into the tank. Only, no longer in one piece. After I got done yelling at hubby about not covering the pump intake out of the sump with the net, or some screening, or WHATEVER ... I looked around my soggy living room, to my sad child saying "they're all going to die" to my hubby who was annoyed that I had yelled at him.

I don't know when to feed the fish ... they never come for the food. I hope they are finding it on the bottom of the tank at some point, becuase they are starving otherwise. I am doing massive water changes because the ammonia is too high.

I am just soooo frustrated, I think I may be done with this hobby before I have really figured it out.

Thanks for listening.

M'al

 

[Betta5]

If your still in cycle and have fish in there you need to feed them very small ammounts. Turn the lights on and give them a few mins then put a few flakes in. They will soon learn that you mean food and every time you walk past they will all be up at the top wanting to be fed, It can be annoying but dont give up, really in a few months you will look at the tank and laugh how much you was fustrated and annoyed,

 

[MHunt]

Ok, first of all don't become too disheartened, you may have a difficult start, but the results when you have sorted everything out are worth the effort now. I have had my 20 gal community set up for over a year now I am sure I've replaced all the fish i started with due to various deaths. But the good news is I now have a pretty stable tank, nothing has died recently, at least not since my son majorly overfed the tank on Aquarian flakes. Some of my fish now breed regularly and I have restocked the tank with the offspring.

If the ammonia is too high, then your tank hasn't cycled properly. I would be tempted to do smaller water changes more often, or get some ammo lock. The benefit of the ammo lock is it makes the ammonia and nitrite harmless to the fish, but still feeds the nitrifying bacteria allowing the filter to cycle.

 

[Bullrock74]

Wow...where to start? It seems that your tank has not cycled. So, unless you can rehome the fish you have until it does, you should do a 25-30% water change each day until the tank is cycled (0 ammonia and 0 nitrite).

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

Aww don't be frustrated.

For the water change problem...
Since your tank is kinda on the larger size you might want to look at at the Python No-Spill system. Basically it's just a fancier siphon that connects directly to your sink. The force of the tap water creates the siphon drawing water out of the tank (some people connect a second hose to run all the old water into the garden or flowerbed), and then you hit a switch to send water back into the tank directly from the tap. Lots of people swear by em!

For the filter intake...
The foot end of a clean unused nylon stocking secured with a rubber band should work.

When it comes to feeding...eventually the fish will learn. Remember that they might have been used to a different feeding schedule at the pet store, but eventually they will learn to come up to the surface when you open the lid to the tank.

 

[M'al-finny]

Thank you all. I just feel like I'm over my head.

I can't seem to get a consistent "open the top" or "turn on the light" due to the fact that the top of the tank has an oak hood which is 4 feet long and 1.5 feet high. It takes two people to lift on or off and that's where the light is attached. It stays off (mostly) due to daily water changes. So far the fish don't notice if I call, or tap the glass, or stick my hand in the water and wiggle it to get their attention. (Betta is good at that, so he is doing better at getting food, just seems to hate the food and spits it out.) So far, only about 4 flakes the size of my pinky nail are going in per day. Intellectually, I know that it is too much because the fish don't seem to notice there's a flake swirling around in the water, then settling to the gravel. Emotionally, I am convinced my fish are starving.

I DID put the nylon stocking cover on the sump intake last night, when I was up 'til after midnight reworking the tank intake cover (that one is made of window screening. It has the two siphon U-tubes coming out the back and the pantyhose still allows enough of a gap for a fish to get drawn through.)

The tank has not finished cycling, hence the DAILY water changes. I guess I was soooooo determined to keep all my fishies alive via heroic measures that I am really depressed to have lost one. Especially after really making an effort with the water and the environment after realizing novice mistakes. I mean, I am really putting some effort into this! I think starting with a really tricky setup has magnified my frustration.

I will look into the Python system ... thanks for the suggestion!

And, I am heartened to see that I have a little, teeny, weeny bit of nitrates this morning before work. That means that there is some bacteria growing. (Ammonia .5, Nitrite 0, Nitrate <.25) Never thought I'd be so excited about bacteria.

 

[mark.w.jones]

Those levels sound resonably healthy to me. 60% water changes are really not good for your fish and should be avoided at all costs thou. Try and stick to a maximum of 20% a day and remember that when cycling with fish, something that most members here try to avoid although a lot of new owners do not know any better, you are bound to have some ammonia and nitrite readings. You just have to balance these low levels of nitrite and ammonia with not doing too many large water changes as these are just as likely to cause fish deaths.

Next time please consider doing a fishless cycle, less stressful or owner anf fish alike.

 

[bubblesburst80]

sorry for you r loss

sory to hear you are having a hard start but if you just hang on and take in the great advice you have been given before my post im sure you will love fish keeping, yes the maintenance can be hard work, but once your in a routine it will be like second nature.

xXx

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

60% water changes are really not good for your fish and should be avoided at all costs thou

I totally disagree with this. As long as the temp, pH, and GH/KH of the new water is reasonably close there should be no harm in doing a large water change. Large water changes are only dangerous when something has been done (or lack of long-term maint) that has caused a significant difference between old water parameters and new. Only doing "20% per day" in a cycling tank may not be enough to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels within a safe range.

Fishless cycling is great, but unfortunately most pet shops simply don't explain that option to new tank owners. Fish in cycling is like house training a puppy, but with less gnaw marks on the furniture. It can be really stressful and frustrating, but eventually the hard work pays off.

 

[mark.w.jones]

60% water changes are really not good for your fish and should be avoided at all costs thou

I totally disagree with this. As long as the temp, pH, and GH/KH of the new water is reasonably close there should be no harm in doing a large water change. Large water changes are only dangerous when something has been done (or lack of long-term maint) that has caused a significant difference between old water parameters and new. Only doing "20% per day" in a cycling tank may not be enough to keep the ammonia and nitrite levels within a safe range.

What is a "safe range" thou. That was the point I was making. That some low levels of ammonia and nitrite are inevitable when cycling with fish and that constantly doing massive water changes to try and keep them at 0ppm is I feel more stressful than keeping the amounts at a consistant low level. Consistancy is what you want with water conditions not having the temp., pH, and mineral levels swinging up and down every day. Large water changes should be reserved to emergency situations as getting tap water to match exactly what is in your tank is impossible.

 

[M'al-finny]

Thanks guys. I went home at lunch (not a usual thing) and found another danio in the filter intake area. Can't figure out how he got there, as the thing is completely enclosed in screen. So we turned off the filter and had no choice but to net him out (too small to fit any sort of scooping device.) By the time I rework the intake cover again, I will be ready to patent the thing.

By the way, here is how I got to this situation: I had started the fishless cycle, went 4 weeks with no nitrites at all. We stopped by the LFS recommended by a friend to see if I could get mature filter media or some gravel from a mature tank. LFS guy (very convincing, lots of experience) basically told me that there is no need for it, blah blah blah. Then convinced my husband it would be OK to bring just a few hardy fish home. So, we took them home. And I have been busting my butt to make sure they are still alive despite sub-optimal conditions. We have two main challenges: 1) the ding-danged filter and 2) uncycled tank. Everything else (feeding concerns) is just icing on the cake.

My water is extremely hard and is well water, so at least there is no chlorine to contend with. I am bringing it out of the tap at approximately the same temp as the tank. Now, I have concerns with water quality coming from a water heater (electric,) but I refuse to make myself that much MORE neurotic.

Thank you all for the encouragement. I will keep going with water checking and changing until I am lounging on the sofa watching happy fishies under their lovely oak hood swimming in their mature tank. Who knows, perhaps I will have more than 6 fish total in a 55 gallon tank! Someday, my little girl will be able to feed her OWN fish! (I am still explaining to her about how only Mommy can feed these fish right now.) Ah yes, I will work towards the vision ....

 

[Bullrock74]

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=154313&hl=[/url]

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

That was the point I was making. That some low levels of ammonia and nitrite are inevitable when cycling with fish and that constantly doing massive water changes to try and keep them at 0ppm is I feel more stressful than keeping the amounts at a consistant low level.

This is why I gave her a target to shoot for... less than .25 ppm. Granted there are people who would say..."your ammonia and nitrite must be 0!!!", but that is unrealistic while doing a fish-in cycle. Considering that the tank is newish, and she was already doing water changes, there should be no significant change between her tap and tank. Furthermore, if fish were so delicate that they couldn't survive a minor shift in pH, water temp, etc...they would all die every time there was a serious rain storm in the wild. Also, because her tap water is in the higher pH range it would be much more beneficial for the fish to dilute the ammonia as much as possible.