From Fresh To Salt

choose what corals you want before you choose light and flow. The more powerheads (not nessicarily more flow, just more powerheads) the better. Aka, 6 100gph pumps is better than 1 600gph pump in the tank because it provides back up, and random alternating flow, but does take up a bit of space. Find out how much flow you need, then divide that by 2, and thats how powerful the powerheads you need, and get two of those powerheads. I use 2 powerheads in my system.

I gathered that one would not be good from some reading I did. So basically I need 3. 1 being for backup. Is there such thing as overlighting corals?"
 
yes there is such thing as too much lighting definately. But also take into consideration positioning, corals higher up get more light, corals on sand bed not as much.
 
yes there is such thing as too much lighting definately. But also take into consideration positioning, corals higher up get more light, corals on sand bed not as much.

I eventually want an anemone. But besides that nothing that light intensive. polyps, bubble and frogspawn have caught my eye so far.
 
choose what corals you want before you choose light and flow

This is great advice and while I don't want to steal Musho's thunder, I wanted to add that you having live rock does NOT mean that you need to have any special lighting at all - in fact, it will certainly remain 'live' even when kept in the dark. Granted, the coralline algae growth would be inhibited or stopped completely by low or no light....however, arming yourself with this info means that you can get started on the tank long before you will need a more expensive light system. In fact, since fish are not photosynthetic either, many of us will start out with a FOWLR tank and continue to stick to that until we have saved up for the best possible light system; which also affords us some additional time to become more familiar with SW husbandry.

But also take into consideration positioning, corals higher up get more light, corals on sand bed not as much.

Again, great advice and I am not trying to discount it at all, but also wanted to add to this thought by bringing up the point that if you are going to go with the smaller tank and subsequently purchase some of the more 'extreme' light systems (e.g. Mh), putting a coral that it suffering from recieving too much light (e.g. bleaching) on the substrate may not help out as much as you would like since the light coming from a Mh bulb can penetrate water for quite a ways. In fact, this is a great example of why using any 'watts per gallon' rule is really only a basic guideline since there are many other factors to consider. To support that notion, I doubt anyone can argue with the fact that one can keep even the most 'light needy' coral in a 5000 gallon tank without needing 40,000 watts of light...as long as that light is reaching it. Conversely, since light doesn't really 'mix' with the water like a med, suppliment, or other similar things, I could have 5000 watts of light shining on one corner of a 250 gallon tank but if all of the photosynthetic corals I have placed on the extreme opposite side that the light is shining on, the odds are great that the coral will not fare all that well.

Anyways, like Musho said, it is probably best, and probably much cheaper to 'design' your first and then go hunting for the most ideal light system.

I eventually want an anemone. But besides that nothing that light intensive. polyps, bubble and frogspawn have caught my eye so far.

To be honest, I would hold off on the anemone until your tank is not only cycled, but established (as well as until you are 'established' in SW) before adding an anemone since most are pretty sensitive to water quality. Like corals, some anemones will also require different lighting and water flow conditions in order to thrive (but inlike corals, they will simply move until they find the right spot) so that is also something to consider when thinking about lights and power heads.

While I am sure you may already know this, let me say that you should not let anyone tell you that if you have clownfish, you need an anemone, and/or vice versa --- both can survive equally as well in an aquarium without that symbiotic relationship. That being said, it is also very important to realize that clownfish will not host within any and every anemone and in fact, some species of clownfish are not as likely to host in certain anemones, while another type of clown would. Point being, do your research first and then bring home the right combination. Oh, and while I have heard mixed reviews, it is possible for you to buy some clownfish now, but buy an anemone months later and there is a decent chance that they will still host in it. Although, sometimes clowns can be found hosting in certain corals...which, in some cases, can harm the coral.
 
choose what corals you want before you choose light and flow

This is great advice and while I don't want to steal Musho's thunder, I wanted to add that you having live rock does NOT mean that you need to have any special lighting at all - in fact, it will certainly remain 'live' even when kept in the dark. Granted, the coralline algae growth would be inhibited or stopped completely by low or no light....however, arming yourself with this info means that you can get started on the tank long before you will need a more expensive light system. In fact, since fish are not photosynthetic either, many of us will start out with a FOWLR tank and continue to stick to that until we have saved up for the best possible light system; which also affords us some additional time to become more familiar with SW husbandry.

But also take into consideration positioning, corals higher up get more light, corals on sand bed not as much.

Again, great advice and I am not trying to discount it at all, but also wanted to add to this thought by bringing up the point that if you are going to go with the smaller tank and subsequently purchase some of the more 'extreme' light systems (e.g. Mh), putting a coral that it suffering from recieving too much light (e.g. bleaching) on the substrate may not help out as much as you would like since the light coming from a Mh bulb can penetrate water for quite a ways. In fact, this is a great example of why using any 'watts per gallon' rule is really only a basic guideline since there are many other factors to consider. To support that notion, I doubt anyone can argue with the fact that one can keep even the most 'light needy' coral in a 5000 gallon tank without needing 40,000 watts of light...as long as that light is reaching it. Conversely, since light doesn't really 'mix' with the water like a med, suppliment, or other similar things, I could have 5000 watts of light shining on one corner of a 250 gallon tank but if all of the photosynthetic corals I have placed on the extreme opposite side that the light is shining on, the odds are great that the coral will not fare all that well.

Anyways, like Musho said, it is probably best, and probably much cheaper to 'design' your first and then go hunting for the most ideal light system.

I eventually want an anemone. But besides that nothing that light intensive. polyps, bubble and frogspawn have caught my eye so far.

To be honest, I would hold off on the anemone until your tank is not only cycled, but established (as well as until you are 'established' in SW) before adding an anemone since most are pretty sensitive to water quality. Like corals, some anemones will also require different lighting and water flow conditions in order to thrive (but inlike corals, they will simply move until they find the right spot) so that is also something to consider when thinking about lights and power heads.

While I am sure you may already know this, let me say that you should not let anyone tell you that if you have clownfish, you need an anemone, and/or vice versa --- both can survive equally as well in an aquarium without that symbiotic relationship. That being said, it is also very important to realize that clownfish will not host within any and every anemone and in fact, some species of clownfish are not as likely to host in certain anemones, while another type of clown would. Point being, do your research first and then bring home the right combination. Oh, and while I have heard mixed reviews, it is possible for you to buy some clownfish now, but buy an anemone months later and there is a decent chance that they will still host in it. Although, sometimes clowns can be found hosting in certain corals...which, in some cases, can harm the coral.


Besides what bleaching ment I knew most of that information already. I have been advised to wait a ear before adding an anemone. Thats if I want to breed mostly which I am not really looking into. Now with the 30 g options have opened up and while I do like clowns, there are far more interesting fish I can now keep. I may just get one osc. or none at all. I have more research to do. Much more.

Also do anemone fall into the coral family?
 
anemones arent corals and vise versa, but im pretty sure they are both cnidaria.
 
I'll probably get shot for saying this, maybe by Musho even, but you don't need to wait an entire year to keep an anemone and haven't the foggiest idea why that seems to be such common advice. In fact, I have had my current anemone for over 8 months and my tank is only a little over 14 months old AND on two occassions, I moved it into a brand new tank with no harm. Granted, that doesn't mean everyone can do it, nor does it mean that I know something everyone else doesn't; perhaps I am just lucky. However, all I have ever come to know about most of them is that if given the right amount of light and steady/stable water chemistry, they aren't going to die because the paint on the tank stand isn't completely dry yet (lol, I actually did that once)
 
i do believe time has something to do with maturity, but the 6 month / 12 month anemone rule is similar to the, lets say, 1 snail per 1-2 gallon rule, there are too many variables.
 
good point...never heard that about the snails though either! Ahhh, too many rules to keep up with these days. Still, it isn't like the water is maturing in the tank for 6 months or a year since we are constantly changing it - but perhaps I am looking at that in the wrong way
 
maturity has to do with 2 main things

Abundance of micro and macro life
Stability

It can be easily cloned, moving everything from one tank directly to another tank, the other tank will take a little while to regain stability, but definately not 6 months. If you started with all base rock and only .5lb live rock, it will take longer for the micro and macro life, maybe even longer than 6 months.
 
ok so I was doing some calulations in my hand and to my understanding with my 30 gallon I can keep a maximum of 6 inches of fish?
 
no, dont go by the inch rule.


Ok I'm a tad confused. This is what I currently have. a 30 gal tank that is 36x12x16 1/2. and a 25 gallon sump. Can I fit in an osc. Clown, sail fin blenny, a firefish, and a 6 line wrasse?

no, dont go by the inch rule.


Ok I'm a tad confused. This is what I currently have. a 30 gal tank that is 36x12x16 1/2. and a 25 gallon sump. Can I fit in an osc. Clown, sail fin blenny, a firefish, and a 6 line wrasse?


Also what about factoring the cleaning crew what am I going to need?"
 
What Musho is trying to say is that these 'inch per gallon' rules are often flawed and really do not apply to most fish. The extreme example would be to say that, per some versions of the rule, you can fit a 15 inch long fish in your 30 gallon tank when you know that wouldn't be a good thing...and you probably wouldnt want to keep a six inch fish in a 30 gallon either, with only a few exceptions. You can basically throw that thinking out of your mind since it cannot really even be applied to the vast majority of freshwater fish, which I believe it was created for initially. In fact, that 'rule' is basically outdated these days because there are so many more types of livestock that are available now that lumping them all under any rule other than "keep them in water" can't always apply.

However, yes, you could probably keep those fish together in your 20 gallon tank. They are all somewhat territorial though so that may be something to consider. In particular, your clowns (which, despite its name, is a damsel and can be as territorial as a damsel) can be fiercly defensive and the six line wrasse is not the most 'chipper' fish in the world either. Of course, this is only speaking in a general sense and I it won't apply in every case.

Regarding the clean up crew...in many cases, you don't really need to factor them in as far as bioload goes (meaning, you don't have to keep less fish in order to keep more clean up crew)...but there are a ton of other 'rules' similar to the inch per gallon version that state "x-amount of snails per gallon" or "x-amount of hermits per gallon"; all of which are just as flawed IMHO. Reason being, there are too many variables to consider - such as how much live rock you have, what benifit(s) does one snail or hermit bring to the tank versus another (same with all other clean up crew members, by the way), and of course, what is in the tank (one fish might eat snails, but not crabs, etc..etc..etc..), among other considerations. So, in short, that makes it sort of hard question to answer.
 
What Musho is trying to say is that these 'inch per gallon' rules are often flawed and really do not apply to most fish. The extreme example would be to say that, per some versions of the rule, you can fit a 15 inch long fish in your 30 gallon tank when you know that wouldn't be a good thing...and you probably wouldnt want to keep a six inch fish in a 30 gallon either, with only a few exceptions. You can basically throw that thinking out of your mind since it cannot really even be applied to the vast majority of freshwater fish, which I believe it was created for initially. In fact, that 'rule' is basically outdated these days because there are so many more types of livestock that are available now that lumping them all under any rule other than "keep them in water" can't always apply.

However, yes, you could probably keep those fish together in your 20 gallon tank. They are all somewhat territorial though so that may be something to consider. In particular, your clowns (which, despite its name, is a damsel and can be as territorial as a damsel) can be fiercly defensive and the six line wrasse is not the most 'chipper' fish in the world either. Of course, this is only speaking in a general sense and I it won't apply in every case.

Regarding the clean up crew...in many cases, you don't really need to factor them in as far as bioload goes (meaning, you don't have to keep less fish in order to keep more clean up crew)...but there are a ton of other 'rules' similar to the inch per gallon version that state "x-amount of snails per gallon" or "x-amount of hermits per gallon"; all of which are just as flawed IMHO. Reason being, there are too many variables to consider - such as how much live rock you have, what benifit(s) does one snail or hermit bring to the tank versus another (same with all other clean up crew members, by the way), and of course, what is in the tank (one fish might eat snails, but not crabs, etc..etc..etc..), among other considerations. So, in short, that makes it sort of hard question to answer.


Its a 30 long btw. I think that rule along with other variable mostly lack of knowledge about cycling really screws up people getting into this hobby. I don't want to end up one more fishing the tank and end up with a hole in the pocket of 300 or so dollars.


OK guys I've been doing a lot of number crunching and thinking and decided to opt out of salt water at this time. I have other hobbies that come before fish such as being a musician. SO I can't devote the time and money needed to succesfully sustain a tank. Next year possibly. I'm make sure to post a diary as soon as I begin. Thanks for the insight I have learned a lot!! :good:
 

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