Fresh Water Testing - Ideal Levels & What Kit To Use?

[rich05uk]

I'm new to fish keeping and am looking forward to setting up my fresh water tank shortly. I've been doing constant research over the last 4 weeks (I know, what a nerd ) and have a fair idea of what I need to do (this website and the people on here have been a huge help, thank you).

I'm now looking into testing, I believe the common things to test for are

Ammonia (NH3 )
Nitrite (NO2)
Nitrate
PH
Carbonate Hardness (KH)
General Hardness (gH)
Phosphate

What are the ideal levels I should achieve of all the above to have a healthy tank? I understand about the nitrogen cycle so expect when the tank has fully cycled that the Ammonia & Nitrite levels should be zero and nitrate will continue to increase (what level of nitrate is a good indication of requiring a water change)?

Finally, what test kit is the best to use, I've heard API are supposed to be good, until I read that someone who used API got completely different results to their LFS who uses Nutrafin, so they now use Nutrafin and no longer rate API. I gather there are loads of different makes out there all varying in cost but what would give an accurate test for a reasonably affordable price? I would have assumed that no mater of the make, the results should be the same, otherwise what's the point in testing if 1 manufacturer's kit gives different results to another manufacturer's kit? Please HELP

 

[backtotropical]

Hi and to the forum,

First of all, it's good to see you have been doing your research. Well done!

With regard to the parameters you should be testing, your list is pretty good. I would suggest that Phosphate and General Hardness can be scored off for now. Phosphate is important in a saltwater tank but is of little importance in freshwater. General hardness only really needs to be tested if you have problems with your kH. I have kept freshwater fish for almost 10 years and have never had any concern for my gH reading.

As you say, ammonia and nitrite should always be 0 and nitrate should continue to rise. I wouldn't advise you to allow the nitrate level to dictate when you should change your water, but let it indicate that your water changes are sufficient / insufficient. Start with changing 30% of the water every week and monitor the effectiveness of this by nitrate levels.

The way to assess your water change routine is to test the nitrate level in your tap water. You should aim to keep the nitrate level in the tank as close to the level in the tapwater as possible. If you find that the nitrate level in the tank is creeping up despite your water changes, increase the water change % or frequency. If you can keep the nitrate level in the tank close to that in the tap, this is indicative that your water changes are sufficient.

If your nitrate level is below 100mg/l, it should be of no concern.

With regard to pH, the actual value is of almost no concern unless it is extreme (below 6 or above 9). What is more important is that the pH stays constant and doesn't fluctuate. If you have hard water (high kH), this will assist in keeping your pH stable.

kH is the measure of the alkalinity of the water or it's buffering capacity. The most important point here is that, like pH, it shouldn't fluctuate and it shouldn't drop too low (below 2dkH). If it drops too low, it will cause your pH to fluctuate and this is not desireable. The good news is that regular water changes will maintain the kH of the water and hopefully avoid this situation.

You mentioned about test kits not being consistent from one manufacturer to the other. This is unfortunately true, although i think with the degree of accuracy required by fishkeepers, it's not too much of an issue. Better to test and have a slightly inaccurate result than not test at all. Make sure that once your test kits get to 6 - 12 months old, they are replaced as they can become very inaccurate. Also, avoid dip-strips as they aren't very accurate to start with. Either API or Nutrafin liquid test kits will be fine to start with.

You mentioned cycling. Are you planning to fishless cycle. It is the preferred option as it doesn't involve poisoning your fish. Unfortunately, it is probably not what your LFS will recommend. Be aware of this when taking advice from your LFS. If you haven't read about fishless cycling, theres a link in my signature below which makes good reading. With a knowledge of the nitrogen cycle, you should understand it no problem.

Ok, i've waffled enough (i could go on all day). If you have any questions, just ask.

Hope this helped you.

Cheers

BTT

 

[rich05uk]

Thanks BTT, that info is fantastic and a huge help.

For now I will ignore General Hardness (gH) and Phosphate then? I've done some more reading and I think these tests relate more to living plants in the tank? I will be keeping living plants in the future so will look into these further when the time's right, I believe there are many more tests to do with live plants such as Calcium, Iron, Co2 etc etc, the list goes on and is a complete topic in its own right.... (I have seen the topic on your tank by the way, very nice...)

I do have 1 question though, you mention that the kH shouldn't fluctuate and it shouldn't drop too low (below 2dkH), is there a problem if this is too high, i.e. is there an upper tolerance limit? I understand that if it is too low that a water change should bring it back up again and I assume the same is true if it's too high, but it's always good to know what the upper and lower tolerance levels should be. Oh and don't worry, I do plan on doing weekly water changes of about 25% regardless of any test results.

As for cycling, I have read the article you suggested and this is probably the method I will be following when I cycle my tank. For argument sake, I did come across this link Tips for Cycling Your New Aquarium which recommends using a small number of fish only to cycle your tank and to then increase your fish slowly AFTER the nitrogen cycle has completed. As such (with daily water changes during cycling) no harm will be caused to the fish and makes for a better healthier tank? By increasing the number of your fish slowly allows for the bacteria to catch up, keeping the balance of bacteria to fish. What are your thoughts?

Thanks, Rich.

 

[littlest]

The method of using a few small hardy fish to cycle a tank is the traditional way. People did it that way for years and years and does work. The disadvantage of this method is that the starter fish you use to cycle with will be exposed to high levels of ammonia and nitrite. It may or may not kill them, but it is likely to cause them some amount of suffering.
The other disadvantage of this way is that when cycling is complete you have to add fish very slowly, as you only have enough bacteria to deal with the waste of those few starter fish.
The water changes would be carried out to lessen the suffering of the starter fish by reducing ammonia/nitrite - but its a lot of work for you.


I've done cycling both ways and definately prefer fishless cycling because:
no fish are exposed to ammonia/nitrite, so it's better for the fish
No daily water changes trying to keep the ammonia/nitrite below a certain level
Once the cycle is complete (after a large water change) you can stock a lot of fish all at once as you've built up a high number of bacteria to break down lots of fish waste

 

[jdyer]

Once the cycle is complete (after a large water change) you can stock a lot of fish all at once as you've built up a high number of bacteria to break down lots of fish waste

Apologies for hijacking your thread.

Is the large water change just for getting the nitrate level back down to a sensible level, or does it help in some other way? The reason I ask is that my 240l tank is almost cycled, but I'm finding the nitrate level is now less than my tap water, presumably because all of the plants are taking the nitrate up.

 

[backtotropical]

I do have 1 question though, you mention that the kH shouldn't fluctuate and it shouldn't drop too low (below 2dkH), is there a problem if this is too high, i.e. is there an upper tolerance limit? I understand that if it is too low that a water change should bring it back up again and I assume the same is true if it's too high, but it's always good to know what the upper and lower tolerance levels should be. Oh and don't worry, I do plan on doing weekly water changes of about 25% regardless of any test results.

The upper limit really depends on the fish. Each type of fish has their specific requirements, for example, mollies prefer hard alkaline water and discus prefer soft acidic water. However, most fish will adapt to the water conditions unless they are extreme. You can always check on here first if you are unsure.

Here is a link to a webpage which gives a table of kH values and what they mean. Generally, the most important thing is to ensure the kH doesn't drop too low as this will cause pH swings which are a major problem for fish.

http/wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwh2oquality.htm

As for cycling, I have read the article you suggested and this is probably the method I will be following when I cycle my tank. For argument sake, I did come across this link Tips for Cycling Your New Aquarium which recommends using a small number of fish only to cycle your tank and to then increase your fish slowly AFTER the nitrogen cycle has completed. As such (with daily water changes during cycling) no harm will be caused to the fish and makes for a better healthier tank? By increasing the number of your fish slowly allows for the bacteria to catch up, keeping the balance of bacteria to fish. What are your thoughts?

I've had a look at the article you linked to and it's on the right lines but some of the information is misleading or just plain wrong. Cycling with fish will always damage the fish unless you are available to be performing water changes 24/7. Fish-in cycling doesn't make for a better healthier tank either. If anything, you would have a tank of fish which have been exposed to high levels of toxins which has impaired their health.

Fish-in cycling is performed by many people all over the world, even today, but theres no getting away from the fact that it damages or kills the fish in question. I suppose it comes down to does the individual care enough for the fish's health.

Cheers

BTT

 

[waterdrop]

BTT, Wow! That link about water hardness is one of the best I've ever seen! Thanks for sharing it!

jdyer, (and rich of course),

You asked:
"Is the large water change just for getting the nitrate level back down to a sensible level, or does it help in some other way?"

My comment:
The big 90% water change that is the dividing line between a fishless cycle and the first adding of fish stock is all about getting rid of all the "undesirables" of the fishless cycling process. For most people it gets rid of Nitrates, perhaps some final ammonia and Nitrite and it also is an opportunity to siphon out algae that frequently forms during fishless cycling. In your case (jdyer) you sound worried that your tap water might have higher nitrates, but its extremely unlikely the rates you are talking about are important. The benefits of the water change outweigh the slightly higher nitrates in your tap water. Don't forget, its the Filter that's getting cycled, not the water!

The bigger answer to this question is that NO, water changes are not just for taking out Nitrates! Water changes take out ALL TYPES of dissolved things that are staying in the aquarium when pure H2O evaporates out. All sorts of trace metals and other bad things that are too difficult or expensive to test for are simply removed. The tracking of Nitrates can be thought of as a convenient test for the aquarist to use in deciding on the amount and frequency of water changes (noting what BTT said above.)

Even for live plants you may find in your reading that one of the successful methods there is to dose micronutrients such that the minimums for plants are there during the week and then a water change takes all the unknowns out and the correct plant nutrients are added again. (I would call this a "high tech planted tank" topic but it sort of nicely demonstrates this general principle about water changes.)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[jdyer]

waterdrop, thanks very much for that - very informative

 

[rich05uk]

Thanks all for the info and I'm glad a few others here have found the information posted by BTT useful... Thanks BTT (and thanks waterdrop for your input too).

I was tempted to buy the Hagen Nutrafin Master Test Kit until I noticed it was around £45 + P&P, was just about to give up and look for something cheaper when I found it at £24.99 + £5 P&P, is that a good price and is this regarded as one of the best test kits for the price?

Thanks... Rich.

P.S.
Without any doubt, I will now be doing a fishless cycle... I want to be regarded as a keeper who cares for his fish, so don't want to cause them any stress or harm if I can knowingly help it....

 

[waterdrop]

The subject of best test kit for a given test is still one I find interesting. Somewhere on this forum there was quite a long discussion I read but then I lost track of it and couldn't find it again despite asking if others knew of it.

It may well be that Nutrafin was the other good alternative. I am using the API and I believe that is perhaps the most popular on TFF but I could be mistaken. I was searching for a KH test and picked up a Tetratest version of that but the results don't seem correct for that one.

Anyway, if BTT or others happen to see this and care to comment further... of course, would make poor Rich's thread even more convoluted!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[backtotropical]

I was tempted to buy the Hagen Nutrafin Master Test Kit until I noticed it was around £45 + P&P, was just about to give up and look for something cheaper when I found it at £24.99 + £5 P&P
Thanks... Rich.

I think £24.99 is a good price for the Nutrafin Master Test Kit, however you are paying for all those tests which you don't really need (calcium, phosphate, iron, gH). Did you look at the Nutrafin Mini-Master Test Kit? It includes tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH which are the 4 'must haves'. If you felt the need you could also buy a kH test kit later.

The Mini-Master Test Kit is £17.99 in the link i posted but i've seen it for £15 if not less. Do some shopping around and see what you think is best for you.

Without any doubt, I will now be doing a fishless cycle... I want to be regarded as a keeper who cares for his fish, so don't want to cause them any stress or harm if I can knowingly help it....

Glad to hear it.

You'd be surprised how many people are just too keen to see fish swimming around their tank, and opt for the fish-in cycle instead, even with full awareness of the implications for the fish.

It may well be that Nutrafin was the other good alternative. I am using the API and I believe that is perhaps the most popular on TFF but I could be mistaken. I was searching for a KH test and picked up a Tetratest version of that but the results don't seem correct for that one.

I personally use Nutrafin and have never encountered any problems. API does seem to be the most popular on TFF but i think that is due to the large USA membership. API are also available in the UK, and i wouldn't like to recommend one over the other. Either will do just fine in my opinion.

Rich, this is the API equivalent of the Nutrafin test kit i linked to above.

The subject of best test kit for a given test is still one I find interesting.

The concept of which test kits are best is something which takes my interest too, Waterdrop. Maybe some of our scientists could pull together some experiments with the most common test kits and prepare us a list of which manufacturer makes the most accurate tests for each parameter? Could prove to be another invaluable resource for the forum.

Cheers

BTT

edit: spelling

 

[rich05uk]

Thanks guys, the advise here has been a real help and quite interesting.

I have managed to find the Nutrafin Mini-Master Test Kit for £12.49 so purchased it this morning. I will see how it goes and once its run out I might try the API equivalent and do my own comparison of the 2 kits....