I recently added a white flower horn in my 125 gal tank. I have one oscar, pair of parrots, pair of green texas, one flower horn, one salvini, pair of walking cats. The new flower horn was badly bitten for two three days. The poor thing survived that and got healed fully. Now I have been closely watching it for over two weeks. It seems that it is not feeding. The fish is about 3". But it would not be possible for him to survive without eating for two weeks. I feed once a day. Now no fish is biting it and it has got its own territory also. What could be the reason for not feeding? and how can I help him?
Flower Horn
- Thread starter deogan
- Start date
Sounds strange indeed.
How big are the other fish in the tank?
How quickly do they "run" away from his area when he defends it? If immediately or they stay away from it then they might not be harassing him but if it takes a few bluffs from him they very well could be testing him too much for his own comfort and when you don't see it.
Fish can easily go 2 weeks without food but obviously isn't preferred. What does he do when you feed? What are you feeding? Have you tried feeding one side of the tank and then when they are preoccupied feed him? (in the case others are eating all the food or he doesn't come to the food)
Possibly internal parasites? Do you have another aquarium you could medicate him for internal parasites to be safe?
it definitely doesn't sound right that a cichlid would go 2 weeks without eating if he isn't stressed or diseased.
How big are the other fish in the tank?
How quickly do they "run" away from his area when he defends it? If immediately or they stay away from it then they might not be harassing him but if it takes a few bluffs from him they very well could be testing him too much for his own comfort and when you don't see it.
Fish can easily go 2 weeks without food but obviously isn't preferred. What does he do when you feed? What are you feeding? Have you tried feeding one side of the tank and then when they are preoccupied feed him? (in the case others are eating all the food or he doesn't come to the food)
Possibly internal parasites? Do you have another aquarium you could medicate him for internal parasites to be safe?
it definitely doesn't sound right that a cichlid would go 2 weeks without eating if he isn't stressed or diseased.
I have had Discus go up to over a month with out eating.
Sounds like the fish is either extremely stressed/depressed and won't eat (happens with Discus a lot) or, has some type of internal bacterial/parasitic disease. It is very hard to tell between the two. How are the other fish? I believe that a parasite would effect the others more then a bacterial disease, which might not effect the other fish as badly. Check your water stats too. How often do you clean the tank?
I would start with hospitalizing the fish. Make sure you are doing LOADS of water changes (25-30 percent daily if possible.) Also, try to hand feed him in the tank after a day or so. If you can get him some live food, then that would be ideal. If not, get some frozen and mix it with garlic puree/juice (good for ridding parasites and inducing an appetite.) These fish come from black waters, so I wouldn't be surprised if black water or low lighting helped the fish calm down and help relieve stress.
If this doesn't help and he doesn't start eating, we may need to take a wild guess. It is hard for the average aquariast to diagnose some of these internals diseases.
Sounds like the fish is either extremely stressed/depressed and won't eat (happens with Discus a lot) or, has some type of internal bacterial/parasitic disease. It is very hard to tell between the two. How are the other fish? I believe that a parasite would effect the others more then a bacterial disease, which might not effect the other fish as badly. Check your water stats too. How often do you clean the tank?
I would start with hospitalizing the fish. Make sure you are doing LOADS of water changes (25-30 percent daily if possible.) Also, try to hand feed him in the tank after a day or so. If you can get him some live food, then that would be ideal. If not, get some frozen and mix it with garlic puree/juice (good for ridding parasites and inducing an appetite.) These fish come from black waters, so I wouldn't be surprised if black water or low lighting helped the fish calm down and help relieve stress.
If this doesn't help and he doesn't start eating, we may need to take a wild guess. It is hard for the average aquariast to diagnose some of these internals diseases.
I will answer the queries one by one. I am doing a weekly water change that too about 80 %. I have been doing this for over a year. I clean my filters once a month. My mortality rate is three fishes in one year that too happened in winters because I got delayed in water change. Salvini is about 3", Tiger Oscar & Flower horn about 7", Green Texas & parrots about 4". I am feeding a mixture of tetra bits, pallets and blood worms. I feed once a day.
By the way the cave that he has occupied got a new tenant. One of the walking cats now inhabit it. I also feel that he is stressed. Please advise how can I hand feed it? And that if he is stressed will he take feed from hand?
By the way the cave that he has occupied got a new tenant. One of the walking cats now inhabit it. I also feel that he is stressed. Please advise how can I hand feed it? And that if he is stressed will he take feed from hand?
Davo86
Cichlids, Catfish and Oddballs
80% water changes seems quite steep even for the fish you keep, also how are you cleaning your filters?
I am confused. In your first post you said the new flowerhorn is 3" and in your follow-up you say he's 7"? I must be misreading it, I guess.
IMO, I wouldn't change so much in a wc right now. That could be stressing him. Try 2-3 throghout the week at 25%.
Davo86 might be on the right track. Depending on how you clean your filter you could be killing your beneficial bacteria. What are your ammonia/Nitrite levels? Are you cleaning it with aquarium water or the clean tap water? Why do you clean it so often? I clean mine probably 3 times a year.
What filters/filtration do you have? I'm guessing with those messy fish and that size tank you have more than one filter? Do you clean both at the same time or 1 one month then the other the next?
You still didn't mention how he acts when you feed. Does he act at all interested and get bullied away or does he stay in his area?
Like mentioned, try hndfeeding him. Take a piece of shrimp and put it right up to his mouth. If he swims away then drop it and back out, don't chase him with it. Back away from the tank and watch him for 10 mins or so and see how he behaves and if he eats it or lets someone else eat it in his territory. If he allows another fish to eat it in his territory I would lean towards him having an interior infection and get him medicated in another tank right away just in case. it's impossible for any of us to say and I'm just guessing because I have to actually see what I'm looking for to know but I'm just throwing that out there.
Edit: I should say also be careful when you hand feed him if he's 7". He's not like an oscar and will gum you, he has teeth.
IMO, I wouldn't change so much in a wc right now. That could be stressing him. Try 2-3 throghout the week at 25%.
Davo86 might be on the right track. Depending on how you clean your filter you could be killing your beneficial bacteria. What are your ammonia/Nitrite levels? Are you cleaning it with aquarium water or the clean tap water? Why do you clean it so often? I clean mine probably 3 times a year.
What filters/filtration do you have? I'm guessing with those messy fish and that size tank you have more than one filter? Do you clean both at the same time or 1 one month then the other the next?
You still didn't mention how he acts when you feed. Does he act at all interested and get bullied away or does he stay in his area?
Like mentioned, try hndfeeding him. Take a piece of shrimp and put it right up to his mouth. If he swims away then drop it and back out, don't chase him with it. Back away from the tank and watch him for 10 mins or so and see how he behaves and if he eats it or lets someone else eat it in his territory. If he allows another fish to eat it in his territory I would lean towards him having an interior infection and get him medicated in another tank right away just in case. it's impossible for any of us to say and I'm just guessing because I have to actually see what I'm looking for to know but I'm just throwing that out there.
Edit: I should say also be careful when you hand feed him if he's 7". He's not like an oscar and will gum you, he has teeth.
Sorry for the confusion I created. I have two flower horns. One is 7" and the other one having the problem is 3". I have two internal filters rated for 2000 lph each. Both are sponge filters. I will reduce the weekly water change to 50 %. The main reason of doing so much water change is that I am adding tetra bits to food. It colors the water red. It looks a little out of place. I understand that i can result in a spike but so far I did not have a problem. On the contrary my fish have grown considerably. I clean both filters at a time. But as I understand from your advise I should clean one at a time to maintain water stats. But when I take out the filter at the end of the month, the sponge media is badly chocked. So what do you advise? Also I am not cleaning with aquarium water. I am cleaning with tap water. But even if I clean with aquarium water how does it help the bacteria? Because the bacteria will as such be washed away in the water and I will not put the dirty water back in the tank.
I will try to hand feed him and see the response. BTW thanks all you guys for taking pains to reply to my queries. You are in fact helping me to make my tank healthier for my small pets.
I will try to hand feed him and see the response. BTW thanks all you guys for taking pains to reply to my queries. You are in fact helping me to make my tank healthier for my small pets.
Davo86
Cichlids, Catfish and Oddballs
Tap water contains chlorine which kills bacteria on touch, this means that every time you wash the filters you are sort of pressing the reset button and starting a new cycle in your tank,
whilst larger fish may not show much of a reaction to this, it is definitely IMO causing the problems with the smaller Flowerhorn, and even with the larger fish who may not appear to be suffering the ever changing parameters are likely to cause more of a long term problem
Also IMO internals are pretty ineffective with the fish that you are keeping, and two heavy duty externals would be something along the recommended filtration for your setup?
I would also be interested to see water parameters taken around the day before you clean the filters so we know how high things such as ammonia and nitrite are getting
whilst larger fish may not show much of a reaction to this, it is definitely IMO causing the problems with the smaller Flowerhorn, and even with the larger fish who may not appear to be suffering the ever changing parameters are likely to cause more of a long term problem
Also IMO internals are pretty ineffective with the fish that you are keeping, and two heavy duty externals would be something along the recommended filtration for your setup?
I would also be interested to see water parameters taken around the day before you clean the filters so we know how high things such as ammonia and nitrite are getting
Agreed 100% on what Dav086 mentioned.
Just wanted to add that I'm glad you aren't taking it personally or getting defensive and trying to learn so it makes it easy to try and troubleshoot and try to help you. I also believe you when you say your fish are growing considerably as it's obvious you care a great deal about them or you wouldn't be here asking questions.
IMO, if food I was adding to the tank was that dirty that it clogged the filters every month I would change foods. If you would rather not do that then try your best to clean one filter then wait at least 1-1/2 to 2 weeks before changing the other. Like mentioned, it could be that you're causing amonia spikes by killing the beneficial bacteria by cleaning with the tap water. At least with 1 filter untouched you'll be able to maintain a certain amount of bacteria in that filter which can cope with the ammonia and it will more rapidly multiply to make up for the loss.
If affordable I would try to get externals with large cichlids and piranhas that are so messy.
Understood. If I were to replace both the internal filters with one external, then what do you suggest. Please give me the lph rating or other ratings and not the name of the filter as most of the imported filters are not available in India. I will take the filter best matched with the rating that you would suggest. I want to put only one external and no internal as it would be easier to manage for me.
also secondly, I tried to hand feed the little one today. But he backed off. Now if this means that he has infection, how can I treat him. Because I do not want to loose him. And I am very apprehensive of putting him in another tank. In past when ever I took a fish out from the main tank and put it in the other one, the fish died with in a day or two. Of course the other tank had the same water taken from the main tank.
also secondly, I tried to hand feed the little one today. But he backed off. Now if this means that he has infection, how can I treat him. Because I do not want to loose him. And I am very apprehensive of putting him in another tank. In past when ever I took a fish out from the main tank and put it in the other one, the fish died with in a day or two. Of course the other tank had the same water taken from the main tank.
On my tanks I get filters that turn the tank over 10-15 times an hour per gallon. (Not sure about lph, I'm sorry) get one that will turn your tank over a minimum of 10 times an hour when you have large cichlids that are mesy.
If it IS what we think it is...that the tank isn't cycled or keeps going through mini-cycles the best thing to do would be to go to your lfs and see if they can give you some material that is seeded with beneficial bacteria to jump-start your tank. Whether you can get some or not I would do 10-15% water changes daily for 2-3 weeks and leave your filters alone, feed something that is not so messy, at least for the time being. that should hopefully protect the fish enough from ammonia and nitrites. Don't do any large scale wc's for the time being. Only small daily ones.
In the future if you need to clean your filters, if you have 2, clean 1 and leave the other alone for a minimum of 2 weeks.
Like I said, I only clean mine 3 times a year and even then I do it about a month apart at least.
As per the aquarium calculator the volume of my tank is 425 Ltrs. My both filters are rated for 2000 LPH. So it gives me 4000 LPH which is more or less equal to turning over the water 10 times per hour. So I feel that the filters are alright as per your standards. I will start doing the water changes as you have told. I cleaned my filter on 25 th last month. Now as per you I will not touch my filters for at least another month. And I will start cleaning the filter by aquarium water only.
But please suggest me some way to feed my little flower.
Davo86
Cichlids, Catfish and Oddballs
Hey, what are you currently feeding? don't think its been mentioned
After the others have all fed, you could try feeding some chopped prawns using some long tweezers to direct the food towards the flowerhorn
After the others have all fed, you could try feeding some chopped prawns using some long tweezers to direct the food towards the flowerhorn
Again Davo86 picks up the slack. Thank you davo, good ideas and questions that need to be answered.
We are suggesting ways to get your flowerhorn to eat, hopefully. If he's not stressed from the water parameters he will more readily eat. (Not saying it IS bad water params but the best bet so far, imo).
Put prawns or shrimp right in his territory as close to his area he's at most of the time and give him 15 mins to eat. If he eats do it again. If he doesn't, take it out and try each day. Do it before you disturb him/stress him by doing your daily wc's.
In all seriousness though and I know you're afraid to do it from past experiences, if this were my fish I'd put him in a hospital tank and treat for internal parasites right away like I mentioned above in the beginning. I can see piranhas going weeks without eating as that wouldn't bother me but I've never had a cichlid do that other than the ones that had internal parasites. That's just my experience and possibly not the norm though. Others here know a lot more about cichlids than I.
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