Flame dwarf gourami white lips?

[Colin_T]

If you can post some more pictures of the fish and a video so we can see its body shape, and maybe offer it a bit of food so we can see how it responds, that might provide us with more information.

What does the fish's poop look like?

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With internal problems, there usually isn't much you can do. Quite often by the time the fish shows any symptoms, there is so much damage done to the internal organs the fish don't survive.

At this stage, if you want to add something, just do a big water change and gravel clean the substrate, then add some salt, (see directions below). The salt will help kill off some bacteria and fungus and the fish might recover. However, with internal problems, that's a different issue and usually has a bad outcome.

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SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt) or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

 

[SubparFruit]

There is a caveat in regards to the use of Melafix with labrynth fish like Gourami.

Depending on how long you have used Melafix there could potentially be residual damage done to the Gourami's labrynth organ already. It won't heal once damaged, but with water changes to get rid of the medication it shouldn't get any worse. However you may find that the Gourami surface breathes more frequently than you might expect it to do. Hopefully the fish will not be too severely damaged but you need to be aware that its behaviour with surface breathing frequency may increase as a result.

Keep the water clean, keep a close eye on the fish, add in a bubbler or if your filter has venturi use that to bolster the oxygenation.

Try not to kick yourself over using the medication, you should have been warned off it by the shop but you weren't and that isn't your fault. Unfortunately shops are in the business to make profit, they rarely (if ever) consider their actions and recommendations having detrimental effects on the fish.

Thank you for your kindness! I just got home and he looks gorged, even more bloated than he did this morning, would that be because of the melafix? I had only done three treatments of 5mls each in the tank so far and I'm gonna go do a 70% change now to try and alleviate any further damage. I already have a bubbler in there (originally for aesthetics).

 

[SubparFruit]

If you can post some more pictures of the fish and a video so we can see its body shape, and maybe offer it a bit of food so we can see how it responds, that might provide us with more information.

What does the fish's poop look like?

-----------------
With internal problems, there usually isn't much you can do. Quite often by the time the fish shows any symptoms, there is so much damage done to the internal organs the fish don't survive.

At this stage, if you want to add something, just do a big water change and gravel clean the substrate, then add some salt, (see directions below). The salt will help kill off some bacteria and fungus and the fish might recover. However, with internal problems, that's a different issue and usually has a bad outcome.

-----------------
SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt) or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

Thank you for your help, heres a video of him in the tank: Video of Gourami
he pooped this morning when I watched him and it was a pale colour and quite long.

Actually after my last tank issue the fish tank place near me told me to add a little bit of the salt to the tank, so I was adding probably half a teaspoon when I did a water change. Maybe this is the kidney damage you mentioned....... cant trust anyone these days

And heres a video of me attempting to feed him the usual flake mix I feed them all normally : Feeding
Normally he would imediately come over to the tank when he sees me, especially when its food time and he has not been bahaving like that since this all started.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

Can you fast the fish for a few days......it won't hurt them to go without food for anything up to a couple of weeks, so don't be worried about not feeding for a few days

The fish behaviour and body language...and the bloating...sort of looks vaguely DGIV but I am not going down that road just yet, will await other opinions on that first. It's certainly not a happy fish, for sure. I truly hope that it won't be DGIV...

 

[SubparFruit]

Can you fast the fish for a few days......it won't hurt them to go without food for anything up to a couple of weeks, so don't be worried about not feeding for a few days

The fish behaviour and body language...and the bloating...sort of looks vaguely DGIV but I am not going down that road just yet, will await other opinions on that first. It's certainly not a happy fish, for sure. I truly hope that it won't be DGIV...

I can definitely fast them for a few days, Im just concerned that the gourami has already not been eating for atleast three days now, and I mean if hes not gonna eat theres no harm, but I was really hoping he would get some food in his stomach soon.

I had never known about DGIV but I just looked it up and it sounds super serious, but from what I saw most fish die within two days, and this is the third full day since I noticed symptoms and hes still going, does that leave him with a chance of surviving?

I also noticed with the water change my ph was a little low (closer to 6.2/6.4 than 6.6/6.8) so I corrected that with the water change, thats on me with variation in the tap water and not being diligent enough with water changes.

 

[itiwhetu]

I will definitely do that when I get home, I assume that 2 degree increase will be fine for my tetras, guppies and catfish as well?

But also with the mouth injury and the wound on his fin, do you know of anything it could be or how I could help him out? I'm getting really worried now that he hasnt eaten for nearly three days now

Thanks again!!!!

I am still interested in your water parameters. Two or three degrees will be fine for your other fish.

 

[SubparFruit]

I am still interested in your water parameters. Two or three degrees will be fine for your other fish.

When I tested the water on sunday when I first noticed symptoms, thw nitrite and nitrates were around 0-20 and 0-0.5 respectively. The carbonate hardness was around 0-40 and the general hardness was around 0-30, the ammonia was also around 0. Since then I have run out of strips so havent been able to retest just yet but I can try and get some tomorrow if a recheck of the parameters would be helpful

 

[itiwhetu]

So how often and how big are your normal water changes, and are you diligent and do them as you discribe.

 

[itiwhetu]

That is a high Nitrite reading!

 

[Deleted member 149562]

Can you get the liquid type test rather than another strip test please

The strip tests can be unreliable...not always but more often than not.

With the numbers you are quoting, it isn't showing as cycled with the nitrite that high and nitrate that low

 

[SubparFruit]

So how often and how big are your normal water changes, and are you diligent and do them as you discribe.

i do water changes weekly, with around 25% change, I also make sure to clean out the mechanical filter into the old water and when I change the water I add tap water conditioner and some ph down to the new water because my water at home is a bit high for the tank. Every few weeks I wipe down the glass, and once a month or two I clean out the filter and change out the charcoal for some fresh charcoal. I also have to remove some plants because the plants I have grow pretty quickly so I usually trim those back too.
The scales on the strip has intevals of 20 for nitrate so thats not really a good indicator of ratios between the two.

 

[itiwhetu]

i do water changes weekly, with around 25% change, I also make sure to clean out the mechanical filter into the old water and when I change the water I add tap water conditioner and some ph down to the new water because my water at home is a bit high for the tank. Every few weeks I wipe down the glass, and once a month or two I clean out the filter and change out the charcoal for some fresh charcoal. I also have to remove some plants because the plants I have grow pretty quickly so I usually trim those back too.
The scales on the strip has intevals of 20 for nitrate so thats not really a good indicator of ratios between the two.

I don't like chemicals, so pH down is a big red light to me.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

What is the pH of the tapwater without additive?

With the difficulty you are having with reading the strip tests, it might well be a good idea to go with the liquid testing kit since that will be easier to read and more accurate. A liquid testing kit is more expensive but tends to last longer, so it balances out on the financials.

Which dechlorinator are you using (since API do one with Aloe Vera - Stress Coat - and one without....your use of Melafix which is an API product is why I am asking this since shops tend to sell both together under their recommendation even if it is going to cause issues)

 

[SubparFruit]

Can you get the liquid type test rather than another strip test please

The strip tests can be unreliable...not always but more often than not.

With the numbers you are quoting, it isn't showing as cycled with the nitrite that high and nitrate that low

I will aim to get some of the liquid tests tomorrow, is it alright if I just get a 5 in 1 liquid test for ph, high ph, nitrate, nitrite, ammonia?

 

[Deleted member 149562]

I will aim to get some of the liquid tests tomorrow, is it alright if I just get a 5 in 1 liquid test for ph, high ph, nitrate, nitrite, ammonia?

If you buy the complete kit rather than the individual tests it will work out less expensive and be easier for you to interpret and use.