Fixing Ph And Nitrates

[BigBeginner]

o nitrates arn't harmful to fish? i thought if you had enough they would be, i learn new things everyday on these forums =]

the only issues with corals is that they all seem to take longer to open up =\ and the cabbage thing, but the cabbage has done this before

ill try to get the pics, the cabbage wil be easy, the clown moves alot but ill try, my camera is pretty bad, i dont know if youll be able to see it.

 

[SkiFletch]

Local large tank maintenance professionals in my area often say the FO tanks they service in offices have nitrates clear off the scale 200+ and the fish are fine. Of course crabs, inverts, corals, anemones, and snails won't last a day in those circumstances though...

 

[BigBeginner]

k i got the pictures

the cabbage and all its slimey glory

and the un-ided clown with a blue patch on it (if you can see it) you cant realyl see the yellow on the stripes but its there, the whole stripe is almost yellow except for the edges

 

[Colin_T]

ok thanks =] and you say I can find this at the grocery store?

Sodium bicarbonate can be found at any grocery store/ supermarket. It is used for cooking and people sometimes put an open box of the stuff in the fridge to help keep it smelling nice. It shouldn't cost more than a couple of dollars a box.

The clownfish is a spine cheek clown (Premna biaculeatus). They are extremely agro towards other clowns, even their own kind if you introduce a small male to make a pr. Yours is a yellow form meaning it has pale yellow in the white bands. There is also a white form that has pure white bands without any yellow in.

High nitrates can affect fish but if they are in the tank while the nitrates go up, they aren't stressed out as much by it. If you take a fish from a tank without any nitrates and put it into a tank with high nitrates, you could kill it.
Nitrate test kits will read nitrite as nitrate. Therefore you should always check the nitrite level when you check the nitrate level.
As mentioned, either or both nitrate test kits could be faulty. Old kits or those that have been exposed to warm conditions will be more likely to give false readings. Take a sample of tank water into your LFS and have them test it for nitrates. Take your kits in as well and test the same sample of water at the same time. Then compare your results to the shops. Try to keep test kits cool and away from sunlight.

A small water change of 15-20% won't drop the nitrates that much. To drop ammonia, nitrite or nitrate levels quickly you need to do big water changes, (50-75% or even more). If the nitrates get really high, often it is easier to drain the tank right down so there is just enough water for the fish, and then refill it with clean seawater (90-95% water change).
*NB* if you use artificial marine salt then make the water up at least 24hours before you use it.

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If I remember rightly trying to up the PH without the Dkh being in the right area is pointless (and I think the ca is also affected by Dkh) as it will just be absorbed into the water with little results

Dkh is roughly speaking kept at around 9-13 dKH for a marine setup and once you have achieved somewhere in this range then the PH should be able to be upped effectively, I know from experience that PH buffers are pointless without the DKH being right as i went through loads of the stuff with no effect when my Dkh was low, as soon as i got it up to 9-10Dkh my Ph stabilized without a problem.

Also if I remember rightly the lighting can make the ph spike when it comes on and goes off, but cant be sure this is correct hopefully someone will confirm or deny this for me.

Sodium bicarbonate will raise the PH and KH at the same time. This is due to it being a bicarbonate rather than a chloride or sulphate. You can also get calcium carbonate but it doesn't dissolve well in water. Sodium bicarbonate is the cheapest and quickest way to raise the PH.

If the PH goes up during the day, (when the lights are on) then there is not enough surface turbulence and the PH is fluctuating due to a build up of CO2 at night. During the day the corals and algae are using the CO2 (for photosynthesis) dropping the levels, and raising the PH.

 

[BigBeginner]

Sodium bicarbonate can be found at any grocery store/ supermarket. It is used for cooking and people sometimes put an open box of the stuff in the fridge to help keep it smelling nice. It shouldn't cost more than a couple of dollars a box.

OOOO!!! in the US, thats is called baking soda lol, and i do have some in my fridge right now making it smell fresh =]. But i will buy a new pack if i use it

The clownfish is a spine cheek clown (Premna biaculeatus). They are extremely agro towards other clowns, even their own kind if you introduce a small male to make a pr. Yours is a yellow form meaning it has pale yellow in the white bands. There is also a white form that has pure white bands without any yellow in.

thank you so much. I've been wondering what it was, and that agro think makes sense, it's been really mean to my other clown =[. Tyvm for the Id, Should i do anyhting about the clowns or will they be ok?

High nitrates can affect fish but if they are in the tank while the nitrates go up, they aren't stressed out as much by it. If you take a fish from a tank without any nitrates and put it into a tank with high nitrates, you could kill it.
Nitrate test kits will read nitrite as nitrate. Therefore you should always check the nitrite level when you check the nitrate level.
As mentioned, either or both nitrate test kits could be faulty. Old kits or those that have been exposed to warm conditions will be more likely to give false readings. Take a sample of tank water into your LFS and have them test it for nitrates. Take your kits in as well and test the same sample of water at the same time. Then compare your results to the shops. Try to keep test kits cool and away from sunlight.

Well the nitrite was at 0 =\. I have always kept both the kits together and under my tanks in total darkness. Ill take a sample to the store the next time i go.

A small water change of 15-20% won't drop the nitrates that much. To drop ammonia, nitrite or nitrate levels quickly you need to do big water changes, (50-75% or even more). If the nitrates get really high, often it is easier to drain the tank right down so there is just enough water for the fish, and then refill it with clean seawater (90-95% water change).
*NB* if you use artificial marine salt then make the water up at least 24hours before you use it.

Yea thats what i thought. But frequent 10-20% waterchanges can reduce nitrates slowly? Uh oh to that 24 hour thing, how bad is it if i dont mix it in advance for that long?

 

[Colin_T]

Check to make sure the baking soda is only sodium bicarbonate. Some companies sell baking powder that looks the same but has a lot more ingredients in it.

If you have 2 Premnas biaculeatus and one is significantly bigger than the other, then they will be a pr and should be fine together. However, if you have 2 different species of clownfish then they should be separated so the Premnas doesn’t kill the other type.

10-20% water changes done frequently can lower the nitrates but it depends on how much food is going into the tank. A lot of food being added regularly will cause the nitrates to go up faster than the 20% water changes can bring it down. The best way to see if you are doing enough water changes is to monitor the nitrates, which you are doing). If the nitrates go up a lot between water changes, then either do bigger water changes, do them more often, or reduce the amount of food going into the tank. If the nitrates only go up a bit between water changes, then your current water change regime is fine.

De-nitrating filters, sumps/ refugiums with caulerpa growing in, and granular/ chemical nitrate removers can also be used to help keep the nitrates low.

Marine salts take a little while to dissolve into the water. If the water and marine salt isn’t aerated/ mixed for long enough, then some of the salts might not be fully dissolved. This can lead to a lower salinity in the bucket of water and you the hobbyist then adds more salt to get the levels correct. 24hours later the salts have dissolved completely into the water and the salinity goes up higher than it was. You want to aerate/ mix the salt water mixture for a minimum of 12 hours but 24 hours is much better. The aeration also helps remove any chlorine that may be in the water.
I use a 72litre plastic rubbish bin from the hardware store and fill it with tap water and marine salt. I add an airstone and leave the solution to bubble away for a couple of days. When the saltwater is ready I drain the tank and refill it with the new water from the bucket. A small powerhead/ water pump can be used to pump the water from the bucket to the tank.

 

[jeasko]

Sodium bicarbonate will raise the PH and KH at the same time. This is due to it being a bicarbonate rather than a chloride or sulphate. You can also get calcium carbonate but it doesn't dissolve well in water. Sodium bicarbonate is the cheapest and quickest way to raise the PH.

If the PH goes up during the day, (when the lights are on) then there is not enough surface turbulence and the PH is fluctuating due to a build up of CO2 at night. During the day the corals and algae are using the CO2 (for photosynthesis) dropping the levels, and raising the PH.

Colin knew someone would know and its useful to know that it raises both PH and KH will have to remember this for the future

 

[SkiFletch]

Devils advocate: Do remember that no amount of bicarbonate can fix low pH if the aquarium is sealed in a house with moderate levels of CO2 in the air. You can have a kH of 12 and a pH of 7.8 with enough CO2 in the house

 

[Colin_T]

SkiFletch is correct with his Devil's Advocate statement If there is lots of CO2 in a house (from a gas or fire heater) then chances are the PH won't go up much more than it is. However, if the CO2 levels are that high then you want to open a window because high levels of CO2 aren't good for people or animals. Alternatively you can have house plants and they will use some CO2, or set up a refugium with macro algae growing in it. Have the lights on the refugium running at different times to the tank lights. ie: tank lights on during the day and refugium lights on at night. This will allow the macro algae to use the CO2 in the water and help keep the PH up a bit more than it is.

 

[BigBeginner]

gah this is getting confusing o.o, so i should put sodium bicarobonate? lol

 

[SkiFletch]

With a total carbonate hardness of 7dKH I'd add a little. Prolly try a teaspoon or two dissolved in your topup water if you've got a nano, a tablespoon or two if you've got a mid-range tank, and an ounce if you've got a large tank of dry weight bicarbonate. when you do add it your dKH should get up to like 9-10 which gives you room for error. Just don't expect your pH to go up very high with the extra carbonate.

Seems like you need a chemistry degree here huh

 

[BigBeginner]

yea probably, i dont remember much about chem, so like a 55 gal, i should add a ounce? how do i measure an ounce with out any special equipment.... i dont have a ounce spoon

 

[Colin_T]

add 1 level teaspoon to a glass of water, stir until dissolved, then add that amount each day until the PH and KH go up.

 

[BigBeginner]

k =] thanks