Fishless Cycling With Biomature - Daize's Log

[daizeUK]

2) How do people transfer water into their test tubes or chemicals into fish tank? I was thinking of getting a bulk lot of pipettes from eBay, would these be safe to use? (Wouldn't want to mess up test results!)

Hi there!
Personally I'm using just the one pipette to take water from the tank for testing, without rinsing. 5ml is a fair amount of liquid so I didn't think there would be much of a problem with contamination from the odd leftover drop or two.

As for dosing the BioMature and Bacterlife, those come with their own measuring cups so no need to buy any syringes for that.

I keep one for my tests, and one for medicine, just in case. The "medicine" one is the same one I used to dose ammonia during my fishless cycle a few years ago. Secondly, I thoroughly rinsed it before I ever put it back into my fish cabinet. Just rinse it until when you take a deep breath right out of the syringe, your lungs don't tell you there is ammonia in it. ;-) If there is a trace of ammonia, you'll know. Trust me. I inadvertently inhaled while dosing the ammonia in my tank. That was a very unpleasant experience. Pain in my lungs like I've never experienced before. It certainly gives you a great appreciation of what your fish go through with ammonia poisoning.

One great reason to use BioMature, no smell, no unpleasantness!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Can I ask what you mean by liquid rock coming out of your tap? You mean you have very hard water?

 

[daizeUK]

Yes
General hardness is 16.5°dH, according to local water board.

 

[novicefishkeeper1987]

Can I also just ask I already have put live plants in my tank so am just going to take the risk with using the biomature and hope plants cope with it. I didnt know you werent suppose to add real plants when using biomature (until I recieved the bottle)- had seen on posts that plants in tank were fine during fishless cycling!! Because of the plants the temp of my tank is 24-25c and haven't tested yet but think ph will be quite low between 6 and 7 because I'm using colombo flora-base as substrate and its meant to lower ph. With this in mind will my tank still cycle or will it just take longer? I don't mind it taking longer as long as it will happen!!!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

I'm sure it will be fine. The biggest issue with fishless cycling and plants is that the plants require light. And light + ammonia = algae.

I'm not sure exactly what makeup of Biomature is, nor how it could/would affect plants, but in general plants and cycling are not mixed because of the algae that comes with it. You might have some issues with diatoms (brown algae), but it can easily be scruded off and vacuumed up as needed.

 

[daizeUK]

I am showing a trace of nitrites at day 20 of cycle (about 0.1 ppm). That's 20 days for the cycle to start in almost perfect conditions for bacteria (pH 8.2, temp 28°C).

Novicefishkeeper1987, It will be interesting to see how long it takes for your nitrites to appear by comparison, if you choose a lower temperature and pH.

I think it's more a reflection on the quality of the bottled bacteria at this stage though, of course. The BioMature can only nourish bacteria if there are bacteria present in the tank!

I'm not very impressed with the Interpet Filter Start, twenty days is longer than I was expecting, but then again how long would it have taken without using any bottled bacteria at all? Would the cycle even begin at all without some kind of kickstart? I'd love to run a control experiment to find out, but unfortunately I only have the one tank!

The real test of the BioMature will be how long the cycle takes from here. I'm guesstimating a fully cycled tank by late January absolutely best case, or mid-March worst case.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

The first drop in ammonia happens anywhere from 1 - 4 weeks into the cycle unseeded...

 

[daizeUK]

It may be that my cycle actually started earlier than I thought. My ammonia readings did appear to drop slightly right from the start, but I attributed it to my inexperience in reading the kits.

Take a look at this. I compared my nitrite readings from photos I've been taking. I hadn't noticed any difference in the colour until yesterday, but nitrites may have been slowly creeping up without me noticing. Either way, it's a miniscule amount and moving very slowly!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

That's true. The key is the nitrates really, which is a much tougher test to get right.

I'll mention this to you, in case you were unaware.

1ppm ammonia (NH3, because 1 mol is 17 or 18 grams, depending on whether its NH3 or NH4) converts to ~2.7ppm nitrite (NO2, because it is 46g per mol) and then to ~3.6 ppm nitrate (NO3, because it is 62g per mol).

So, if your ammonia is up to 2ppm, you should see a rise in nitrates of over 7ppm before you know that it is being fully converted. ;-)

 

[daizeUK]

That's really interesting, I had actually been wondering whether it was a one-to-one conversion or not. That explains why I'm seeing a rise in nitrites first, but not much drop in ammonia yet.

At least it shows that there's something growing in there! I expect that it will reach a critical point soon as the colony multiplies and the nitrite reading should go bright purple quite quickly.

You're right about the nitrate test, I'm starting at 50ppm to begin with and then the difference between 50 and 80ppm is almost indistinguishable and the only other colour on the chart is all the way up at 160ppm. Should be fun!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

NOt just that, but also the whole completing the test part as well. Make sure to really shake the ever loving crud out of the 2nd bottle and follow the directions PERFECTLY. False readings in the nitrate happen all the time (too low).

 

[daizeUK]

I think I can safely say there's something wrong with my cycle.

I was hoping that this log would turn out to be a good example of what it's like to cycle with BioMature but it seems to me that the cycle is failing. It's now day 26 of the cycle and nitrites have still not peaked, they're still slowly struggling to reach 0.25ppm.

I know that there are bacteria in my tank and they have been trying to establish since at least day 12, judging by the presence of trace nitrites in the photo I posted earlier, but something is stopping them from surviving or reproducing. I can't think what could be wrong, but there must be something in my tank killing my bacteria.

I realised today that I have been underdosing the Filter Start, but I think most of you will tell me the bacteria in a bottle is pointless anyway so that can't be the problem. The bacteria should be reproducing by themselves now anyway.

I know the usual advice is just be patient and it will sort itself out eventually, but it's frustrating when I can see my bacteria trying to establish and something is preventing them... I wish I could fix it! Any insight or ideas would be appreciated.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

When a cycle seems to stall, a large water change can be used at times to kickstart things once again. There's no guarantee that this will work, but what do you have to lose?

I would stay that Filter Start is worthless, but that's just me. ;-) Be sure to dechlorinate the water. ;-) Another thing you can do is add a bit of fish food to the filter - why not just put it there, since that's where you want the ammonia to go anyway - and it will keep the tank area cleaner.


Keep the temp up, and the pH up, the bacteria will prefer it. We'll see what happens.

 

[daizeUK]

Thanks for the advice eagle. I was wondering if a water change would help or if I should just leave well alone.
I topped up a little fresh water yesterday so I'm not sure if that might help a little, I might give it another day or two and see, then I will do a mass water change and do as you say.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

1ppm ammonia (NH3, because 1 mol is 17 or 18 grams, depending on whether its NH3 or NH4) converts to ~2.7ppm nitrite (NO2, because it is 46g per mol) and then to ~3.6 ppm nitrate (NO3, because it is 62g per mol).

While the molecular weights are correct, the author has the chemistry of the nitrogen cycle wrong. The nitrogen cycle is a bio-chemical reaction used by the bacteria to create energy. This is how the process works:

2 NH3 (ammonia) + 3 O2 = 2 HNO2 (nitrite) + 2 H2O + Energy

Similarly, 2 HNO2 (nitrite) + O2 = 2 HNO3 (nitrate) + Energy

The number of nitrogen atoms (for that matter, the number of all the atoms) does not change, and there is no net gain in the concentration of the ractants (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) during the cycle. So there is a strict 1:1:1 ratio as the ammonia is converted into nitrate.

from http/www.aquariace...hp/t-53058.html

If you work with ammonia-nitrogen, nitrite-nitrogen, and nitrate-nitrogen, then the relationship is 1->1->1. It is just working with the whole ion (ammonium, nitrite, nitrate) with 3-4 hydrogens or 2-3 oxygens that get confusing.

From same source as previous quote.