Fishless Cycling Help

[jaywings19]

I set up my 72G tank last weekend and started fishless cycling on Tuesday (March 9th). I've been adding the ammonia since Tuesday at a rate of 5 drops per 10 gallons (about 35 drops each day).

Today's readings were as follows:

Ammonia: 6 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 10 ppm

I have traces of nitrate because I used a cupful of gravel from an established tank.

Do I keep adding ammonia now that I have reached the 5ppm level? Or do I wait until I see some sort of nitrite reading before adding more ammonia?

Your help is greatly appreciated.

 

[pendragon]

The question you are really asking is "Will it benefit the colonization of bacteria if my concentration is above 5.0 ppm?"

The answer is: opinions vary.

Some say that having a concentration over 5.0 ppm does nothing to speed up the colonization, so why keep adding? On the other hand, if you have no fish in the tank, what harm is here to push it up further? It can only help, and do no harm. It's probably your call. IMHO, I'd increase it a bit, but I see no need to get it over 8 or 9 or 10 ppm. I'm sure at some point there is a "Law of Diminshing Returns" effect. But where it is, who knows?

pendragon!

 

[jaywings19]

The question you are really asking is "Will it benefit the colonization of bacteria if my concentration is above 5.0 ppm?"

Yeah... thanks for reading my mind.

And, yes... I figured it probably wouldn't help to have the ammonia reading way above 5.0 ppm (considering it's already at 6.0 ppm). But thanks for confirming my suspicions.

I will just cut back my number of drops per day until I start seeing some Nitrite.

 

[jaywings19]

Okay... I'm now on Day 9 of the Fishless Cycle and still no nitrites?!? Is this normal?

Today's readings were as follows:

Ammonia: 7 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 10 ppm (from some established gravel)

The only things that's changed since my original post is the Ammonia is slightly higher. I cut back on adding Ammonia since I didn't want that reading to be too high.

Also, I just raised the tank temperature to 84 degrees. It was at 78 degrees (w/o the heater) for the first 7 days. I figured this might help things along from what I've read.

Is there anything else I can do? Or am I just being paranoid?

 

[pendragon]

I've never done a fishless cycle before, but the principles are the same. If you have ammonia in the water, you *will* eventually get nitrite. (*) Just as sure as day is followed by night. Just be patient. If you think this is taking a while, wait until you're pulling your hair out looking for the nitrite to go back down. Bit it will happen. It just takes patience.

* This is assuming, of course, that you have no anti-bacterial agent in the water preventing the bacterial colonization. I'm sure you don't, but that is the one thing that will prohibit the cycle.

pendragon!

 

[jaywings19]

I've never done a fishless cycle before, but the principles are the same. If you have ammonia in the water, you *will* eventually get nitrite. (*) Just as sure as day is followed by night. Just be patient. If you think this is taking a while, wait until you're pulling your hair out looking for the nitrite to go back down. Bit it will happen. It just takes patience.

* This is assuming, of course, that you have no anti-bacterial agent in the water preventing the bacterial colonization. I'm sure you don't, but that is the one thing that will prohibit the cycle.

pendragon!

Yeah... I figured that I was just being impatient. Grrrrr. Just want to get some fish in there!

I used the correct ammonia product... and I didn't add anything else except Wardley ChlorOut to remove the chlorine/chloramine. So I don't believe there is any anti-bacterial agent present... not to mention I wouldn't be showing any nitrate then as those bacteria would've been killed off last week.

 

[Dwarfs]

I think the Ciclid addict had made a post or reply about a fishless cycle , you could check with The C.A on that.

 

[pendragon]

not to mention I wouldn't be showing any nitrate then as those bacteria would've been killed off last week.

Uh-oh.

I hate to break it to you, my friend, but your nitrate-producing bacteria are likely expired by now. They cannot live long periods of time without nitrite to feed on, and there's been no no nitrite in the new tank. The nitrate you have presently is probably what was brought along with the bacteria from the old tank; new nitrate cannot be produced without the presence of nitrite, and there is almost certainly no nitrite if you're still reading ammonia. Adding the cupful of gravel from the established tank should help more on the front-end (establishing the ammonia-consuming bacteria) than on the back.

Maybe there is still some nitrate-generators still hanging on in there, but I think it's very unlikely.

pendragon!

 

[jaywings19]

not to mention I wouldn't be showing any nitrate then as those bacteria would've been killed off last week.

Uh-oh.

I hate to break it to you, my friend, but your nitrate-producing bacteria are likely expired by now. They cannot live long periods of time without nitrite to feed on, and there's been no no nitrite in the new tank. The nitrate you have presently is probably what was brought along with the bacteria from the old tank; new nitrate cannot be produced without the presence of nitrite, and there is almost certainly no nitrite if you're still reading ammonia. Adding the cupful of gravel from the established tank should help more on the front-end (establishing the ammonia-consuming bacteria) than on the back.

Maybe there is still some nitrate-generators still hanging on in there, but I think it's very unlikely.

pendragon!

Okay... so basically, I'm now in the position of starting the cycle "from scratch."

This is my first time fishless cycling. . .
Do you know how long it typically takes for Nitrite to show up? It's only Day 9 and I just raised the tank temperature to 84F yesterday, so I don't think there's anything wrong/suspicious... yet.

Guess I should just maintain patience and reassess the situation after 14 days?

 

[pendragon]

Okay... so basically, I'm now in the position of starting the cycle "from scratch."

Well, I wouldn't say that exactly, but it's possible. The gravel you seeded may make the cycle go faster; though I reluctantly concede that if you're ammonia doesn't drop within the next day or so, I'm not sure it has helped. Cycling times vary and it's hard to guess, but I'd say in a completely new tank ammonia typically drops somewhere between days 10 and 15. In my experience, for what that's worth, once the nitrite shows up it takes longer to drop than the ammonia does.

I hope once your cycle "kicks" it will establish faster. I'm crossing my fingers for you. I just wouldn't be surprised if you aren't on course for a more "unaccelerated" cycle. I should think the bacteria on your transplant gravel should've kickstarted it by now.

Here's hoping.

pendragon!

 

[CMC]

We did the fishless cycling on two of our tanks and it took exactly 14 days (2 weeks) for each one. I would cut back on the ammonia some. We floated several used filter media and added some gravel from an established tank. We heard that plenty of aeration also helps. We had several air stones going. Our ammonia level dropped to zero around day 4 and then the nitrites spiked and it seemed like forever before they went to zero (although it was only 10 days). In the 240-gallon we had a couple of small feeder fish during the cyling process but they probably didn't do much good in a tank that size. They survived it and actually grew some during that two week period.

After reading some of the other posts about how long it takes to fishless cycle, I think we're one of the lucky ones. Two weeks is a really short time compared to others. I really think the used filter media and the gravel helped speed it up a lot.

Good luck to you and be patient , it will happen. I know it can be frustrating

 

[jaywings19]

We did the fishless cycling on two of our tanks and it took exactly 14 days (2 weeks) for each one. I would cut back on the ammonia some. We floated several used filter media and added some gravel from an established tank. We heard that plenty of aeration also helps. We had several air stones going. Our ammonia level dropped to zero around day 4 and then the nitrites spiked and it seemed like forever before they went to zero (although it was only 10 days). In the 240-gallon we had a couple of small feeder fish during the cyling process but they probably didn't do much good in a tank that size. They survived it and actually grew some during that two week period.

After reading some of the other posts about how long it takes to fishless cycle, I think we're one of the lucky ones. Two weeks is a really short time compared to others. I really think the used filter media and the gravel helped speed it up a lot.

Good luck to you and be patient , it will happen. I know it can be frustrating

Thanks for the info. I have already cut back on the Ammonia since I'm at 7ppm and there's no sign of Nitrite yet. I guess I'm on the slower end of the fishless cycling scale.

This morning, I changed the filter cartridge in my Eclipse desktop tank. I figured that I shouldn't let the bacteria on there go to waste, so I put the entire cartridge in my 72G tank. Perhaps that will help jump start the process moreso than the cupful of gravel I put in there originally. Was that the right thing to do?

 

[pendragon]

Perhaps that will help jump start the process moreso than the cupful of gravel I put in there originally. Was that the right thing to do?

So long as doing so didn't leave your Eclipse tank insufficiently filtered (doesn't sound that way), it can only help - so yes, good move. You do have the filter running in the 72-gallon as well, right?

I'd leave the "used" filter media in the tank until the cycle completes (i.e. no ammonia, no nitrite), then before adding fish I'd remove the seed media and let the tank run a couple or three days without it in there (while still adding ammonia, of course) to ensure the bacteria have established sufficiently that the tank can hold its own (i.e. keep ammonia and nitrite at zero) without the seed media. If it can't at first - though I believe it will - I wouldn't add fish until it could.

pendragon!

 

[jaywings19]

You do have the filter running in the 72-gallon as well, right?

Yes, of course... the filter has been running since "Day 0"... the day before I started adding Ammonia. It's an Eheim Pro II 2026 canister filter.

I have the tank temperature at 84F right now. Is that too high? I've read that mid-80's is good for fishless cycling, since bacteria multiply faster in higher temperatures. Then to drop the temperature down to "normal" when the cycle is complete.

The only thing I don't have set up on this tank yet is my bubble wand and air pump. I ordered it from Foster & Smith, so it should be here this week. That will provide some extra oxygenation... however, I am getting excellent surface agitation with the canister filter anyway.

 

[jaywings19]

Good luck to you and be patient , it will happen. I know it can be frustrating

Well, it took 17 days... but I finally have a Nitrite reading! I'll go back to adding Ammonia on a daily basis now.

Today's readings were as follows:

Ammonia: 6 ppm
Nitrite: 0.25 ppm
Nitrate: 10 ppm

Hopefully, it won't take another 17 days to complete the cycle.

I feel much relieved now that I don't have to worry about tank contamination.