Fishless Cycling Experts - Help Appreciated!

[keithbrown53]

Have a good holiday, fingers crossed for qualifying week after you come back!

Hello

More progress....

17/12/2010 Ammonia 1, Nitrate 40-80, Nitrite 0.
18/12/2010 Added 2 drops ammonia
19/12/2010 Ammonia 2, Nitrate 40, Nitrite 0
19/12/2010 Added 3 drops ammonia
19/12/2010 Ammonia 4, Ph 7.6
20/12/2010 Ammonia 0.5, Nitrate 40, Nitrite 0
20/12/2010 Added 5 drops ammonia
20/12/2010 Ammonia 4
21/12/2010 Ammonia 2 - 4, Nitrate 40-80, Nitrite 0, Ph 7.6
21/12/2010 Ammonia 1, Nitrate 40-80, Nitrite 0
21/12/2010 Added 3 drops ammonia
21/12/2010 Ammonia 4
23/12/2010 Ammonia .5, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 40-80
23/12/2010 Accidentally added too much ammonia. Test beyond 8ppm ammonia.
23/12/2010 Performed water change to bring down ammonia.
23/12/2010 Ammonia 2 - 4.
24/12/2010 Added 1 drop ammonia
24/12/2010 Ammonia 4, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-40.
25/12/2010 Ammonia 0.5, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-40.
25/12/2010 Added 5 drops ammonia
25/12/2010 Ammonia 4
26/12/2010 Ammonia 0.25, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 40
26/12/2010 Added 9 drops ammonia
26/12/2010 Ammonia between 4 and 8.
28/12/2010 Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 80
28/12/2010 Added 8 drops ammonia
28/12/2010 Ammonia 4

Let me know what you think.

Still not seeing any Nitrite, but Nitrate seems generally to be on the up, from Christmas Eve onwards...

Cheers,

Keith.

 

[KittyKat]

I wouldn't worry about the nitrite: you obviously have the ammonia going somewhere and now nitrates coming from somewhere.. nitrite is smack in the middle of the two. If ammonia drops to 0pm by tomorrow, this is your qualifying week now and you will very likely be able to get most of your fish in one week from now.

 

[keithbrown53]

I wouldn't worry about the nitrite: you obviously have the ammonia going somewhere and now nitrates coming from somewhere.. nitrite is smack in the middle of the two. If ammonia drops to 0pm by tomorrow, this is your qualifying week now and you will very likely be able to get most of your fish in one week from now.

Hi there

What is the criteria for a successful qualifying week?

Also, I've been thinking about fish which are suitable for my tank. Most of the fish types in my 2 LFS are going to be unsuitable as they are going to be too big. What are your thoughts on ordering fish by post? They seem to be delivered in bags of water kept warm by heat packs.

Cheers,

Keith.

 

[KittyKat]

I wouldn't worry about the nitrite: you obviously have the ammonia going somewhere and now nitrates coming from somewhere.. nitrite is smack in the middle of the two. If ammonia drops to 0pm by tomorrow, this is your qualifying week now and you will very likely be able to get most of your fish in one week from now.

What is the criteria for a successful qualifying week?

4-5ppm ammonia to 0ppm in 12 hours every time. (Dose only once per 24 hours, as normal.)

Also, I've been thinking about fish which are suitable for my tank. Most of the fish types in my 2 LFS are going to be unsuitable as they are going to be too big. What are your thoughts on ordering fish by post? They seem to be delivered in bags of water kept warm by heat packs.

I do order a lot of fish by post and used to sell even more. Having posted and received 1000s of fish over many years, I have only had two occasions where there was a problem (once the seller did not pack them properly, the other time the delivery company was being bad). I would quite readily recommend Trimar to anyone in UK.

 

[keithbrown53]

I wouldn't worry about the nitrite: you obviously have the ammonia going somewhere and now nitrates coming from somewhere.. nitrite is smack in the middle of the two. If ammonia drops to 0pm by tomorrow, this is your qualifying week now and you will very likely be able to get most of your fish in one week from now.

What is the criteria for a successful qualifying week?

4-5ppm ammonia to 0ppm in 12 hours every time. (Dose only once per 24 hours, as normal.)

Also, I've been thinking about fish which are suitable for my tank. Most of the fish types in my 2 LFS are going to be unsuitable as they are going to be too big. What are your thoughts on ordering fish by post? They seem to be delivered in bags of water kept warm by heat packs.

I do order a lot of fish by post and used to sell even more. Having posted and received 1000s of fish over many years, I have only had two occasions where there was a problem (once the seller did not pack them properly, the other time the delivery company was being bad). I would quite readily recommend Trimar to anyone in UK.

Hello

Latest numbers below:

17/12/2010 Ammonia 1, Nitrate 40-80, Nitrite 0.
18/12/2010 Added 2 drops ammonia
19/12/2010 Ammonia 2, Nitrate 40, Nitrite 0
19/12/2010 Added 3 drops ammonia
19/12/2010 Ammonia 4, Ph 7.6
20/12/2010 Ammonia 0.5, Nitrate 40, Nitrite 0
20/12/2010 Added 5 drops ammonia
20/12/2010 Ammonia 4
21/12/2010 Ammonia 2 - 4, Nitrate 40-80, Nitrite 0, Ph 7.6
21/12/2010 Ammonia 1, Nitrate 40-80, Nitrite 0
21/12/2010 Added 3 drops ammonia
21/12/2010 Ammonia 4
23/12/2010 Ammonia .5, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 40-80
23/12/2010 Accidentally added too much ammonia. Test beyond 8ppm ammonia.
23/12/2010 Performed water change to bring down ammonia.
23/12/2010 Ammonia 2 - 4.
24/12/2010 Added 1 drop ammonia
24/12/2010 Ammonia 4, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-40.
25/12/2010 Ammonia 0.5, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-40.
25/12/2010 Added 5 drops ammonia
25/12/2010 Ammonia 4
26/12/2010 Ammonia 0.25, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 40
26/12/2010 Added 9 drops ammonia
26/12/2010 Ammonia between 4 and 8.
28/12/2010 Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 80
28/12/2010 Added 8 drops ammonia
28/12/2010 Ammonia 4
29/12/2010 Ammonia 0.25, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 80
29/12/2010 Added 8 drops ammonia
29/12/2010 Ammonia between 4 and 8

Cheers,

Keith.

 

[OldMan47]

Please do not allow yourself to be misled into allowing an ammonia level above 5 ppm. Although higher levels have happened with some cycles and have resulted in acceptable levels, that is not the rule. Instead, we have had the experience that levels above 5 ppm have instead resulted in the wrong bacteria developing.
Although these bacteria have been fairly good at processing say 7 or 8 ppm of ammonia, they are not bacteria that survive well at the trace amounts of ammonia that we see in a mature aquarium situation. Instead we find that the bacteria that do well with ammonia levels below 5 ppm do well when the levels of ammonia available are below 5 ppm and the 8 ppm plus bacteria tend to die off at those levels. It turns out that we recommend that no levels of ammonia over 5 ppm ever be maintained when establishing bacteria to support our aquariums. At values up to about 5 ppm, you will develop the right bacteria in your filter but at higher levels you can expect to develop bacteria that will not help your cycle at all.

 

[KittyKat]

Maybe start trying to test 12 hours after adding ammonia now? If the readings are the same at 12 and 24 hours...

 

[keithbrown53]

Maybe start trying to test 12 hours after adding ammonia now? If the readings are the same at 12 and 24 hours...

Hi there

I'll do that. Starting to run out of testing chemicals now. I've ordered more, so I hope they turn up quickly!

Bearing in mind that I have a 9 Gallon Bi-Ube, and that the perceived wisdom seems to be that the max stock is 1 inch of fish per gallon....would it be OK to have 4 Dwarf Gourami in there? If so, what should the mix of male to female be?

Cheers,

Keith.

 

[KittyKat]

Bearing in mind that I have a 9 Gallon Bi-Ube, and that the perceived wisdom seems to be that the max stock is 1 inch of fish per gallon....would it be OK to have 4 Dwarf Gourami in there? If so, what should the mix of male to female be?

The "theory of stocking" is much more complicated than that.. for example dimensions (length, width, height) also need to be taken into account, the substrate can matter for some species, access to surface for others, whether the tank is planted or not makes a difference for the number of fish, and so on.

In this case, I need to point out that dwarf gouramis are very aggressive and it is generally recommended that for more than one, the tank needs to be 3+ft long (and even then, there should be at most one male). The only alternative I would consider, for a gourami-type fish would be a lone Betta, but that would restrict you on the other tank mates.

 

[keithbrown53]

Bearing in mind that I have a 9 Gallon Bi-Ube, and that the perceived wisdom seems to be that the max stock is 1 inch of fish per gallon....would it be OK to have 4 Dwarf Gourami in there? If so, what should the mix of male to female be?

The "theory of stocking" is much more complicated than that.. for example dimensions (length, width, height) also need to be taken into account, the substrate can matter for some species, access to surface for others, whether the tank is planted or not makes a difference for the number of fish, and so on.

In this case, I need to point out that dwarf gouramis are very aggressive and it is generally recommended that for more than one, the tank needs to be 3+ft long (and even then, there should be at most one male). The only alternative I would consider, for a gourami-type fish would be a lone Betta, but that would restrict you on the other tank mates.

Aaaaargh, I have confused your earlier tip of Honey Gourami with Dwarf Gourami. Quite clearly, not the same thing.

For anyone following this thread, and wondering what to put in a small tank, there is a helpful thread below.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/116208-recommendations-for-a-10-gallon/

Cheers,

Keith.

 

[KittyKat]

A good basis to start, altho there are points there where I would disagree.. mainly that sparkling gouramis and Corys do much better in groups of 6+.

 

[waterdrop]

Agree with KK, both Sparklings and Corys do better with 6+. Each on-paper stocking plan takes many "passes" to get right. It doesn't really matter what order the checks come in but they can sometimes interact with each other. The passes that come to mind are the overall stocking level (the rough inch guideline discussion,) the within-species minimum stocking numbers (eg. shoal sizing,) the between-species aggression checks, the tank swimming-length consideration (eg. danios liking a long raceway etc. lol,) the minimum height consideration (eg. angels needing at least 17" and guidelines like that.)

I suppose after those consideration come the much more complicated ones such as understanding the mating and seasonal aspects of each species or the special idiosyncrasies such as liklihood of jumping or archerfish shooting down insects in your room, odd stuff like that!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[keithbrown53]

Hi All

Latest numbers below:

17/12/2010 Ammonia 1, Nitrate 40-80, Nitrite 0.
18/12/2010 Added 2 drops ammonia
19/12/2010 Ammonia 2, Nitrate 40, Nitrite 0
19/12/2010 Added 3 drops ammonia
19/12/2010 Ammonia 4, Ph 7.6
20/12/2010 Ammonia 0.5, Nitrate 40, Nitrite 0
20/12/2010 Added 5 drops ammonia
20/12/2010 Ammonia 4
21/12/2010 Ammonia 2 - 4, Nitrate 40-80, Nitrite 0, Ph 7.6
21/12/2010 Ammonia 1, Nitrate 40-80, Nitrite 0
21/12/2010 Added 3 drops ammonia
21/12/2010 Ammonia 4
23/12/2010 Ammonia .5, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 40-80
23/12/2010 Accidentally added too much ammonia. Test beyond 8ppm ammonia.
23/12/2010 Performed water change to bring down ammonia.
23/12/2010 Ammonia 2 - 4.
24/12/2010 Added 1 drop ammonia
24/12/2010 Ammonia 4, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-40.
25/12/2010 Ammonia 0.5, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-40.
25/12/2010 Added 5 drops ammonia
25/12/2010 Ammonia 4
26/12/2010 Ammonia 0.25, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 40
26/12/2010 Added 9 drops ammonia
26/12/2010 Ammonia between 4 and 8.
28/12/2010 Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 80
28/12/2010 Added 8 drops ammonia
28/12/2010 Ammonia 4
29/12/2010 Ammonia 0.25, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 80
29/12/2010 Added 8 drops ammonia
29/12/2010 1900 Ammonia between 4 and 8
30/12/2010 0630 Ammonia between 2 and 4
30/12/2010 2320 Ammonia 0.25 - 0.50, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 80-160
30/12/2010 2321 Added 6 drops ammonia
30/12/2010 2335 Ammonia 4
31/12/2010 1130 Ammonia 1, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 160

Dropping 3ppm of ammonia in 12 hours.

Should I continue with 12 hourly testing?

Should I be doing a water change to bring the nitrate down?

If so, what percentage of the water should I be changing?

I take it that I only re-dose the ammonia this evening, and not now?

Hope you all have a pleasant Hogmanay.

Cheers,

Keith.

 

[KittyKat]

I would continue with 12 hour testing: if the bacteria can process 3ppm ammonia in 12 hours, that is way more than a fully stocked tank is likely to produce.

Yes, dosing is once per day at the 24 hour period.

(p.s. I won't be around much for the next little while, I hope someone else can take over!)

 

[keithbrown53]

I would continue with 12 hour testing: if the bacteria can process 3ppm ammonia in 12 hours, that is way more than a fully stocked tank is likely to produce.

Yes, dosing is once per day at the 24 hour period.

(p.s. I won't be around much for the next little while, I hope someone else can take over!)

Hello Again

Latest Numbers below:

17/12/2010 Ammonia 1, Nitrate 40-80, Nitrite 0.
18/12/2010 Added 2 drops ammonia
19/12/2010 Ammonia 2, Nitrate 40, Nitrite 0
19/12/2010 Added 3 drops ammonia
19/12/2010 Ammonia 4, Ph 7.6
20/12/2010 Ammonia 0.5, Nitrate 40, Nitrite 0
20/12/2010 Added 5 drops ammonia
20/12/2010 Ammonia 4
21/12/2010 Ammonia 2 - 4, Nitrate 40-80, Nitrite 0, Ph 7.6
21/12/2010 Ammonia 1, Nitrate 40-80, Nitrite 0
21/12/2010 Added 3 drops ammonia
21/12/2010 Ammonia 4
23/12/2010 Ammonia .5, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 40-80
23/12/2010 Accidentally added too much ammonia. Test beyond 8ppm ammonia.
23/12/2010 Performed water change to bring down ammonia.
23/12/2010 Ammonia 2 - 4.
24/12/2010 Added 1 drop ammonia
24/12/2010 Ammonia 4, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-40.
25/12/2010 Ammonia 0.5, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-40.
25/12/2010 Added 5 drops ammonia
25/12/2010 Ammonia 4
26/12/2010 Ammonia 0.25, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 40
26/12/2010 Added 9 drops ammonia
26/12/2010 Ammonia between 4 and 8.
28/12/2010 Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 80
28/12/2010 Added 8 drops ammonia
28/12/2010 Ammonia 4
29/12/2010 Ammonia 0.25, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 80
29/12/2010 Added 8 drops ammonia
29/12/2010 1900 Ammonia between 4 and 8
30/12/2010 0630 Ammonia between 2 and 4
30/12/2010 2320 Ammonia 0.25 - 0.50, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 80-160
30/12/2010 2321 Added 6 drops ammonia
30/12/2010 2335 Ammonia 4
31/12/2010 1130 Ammonia 1, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 160
31/12/2010 1830 Ammonia .5
31/12/2010 1830 Added 6 drops ammonia
31/12/2010 1845 Ammonia 4, Ph 7.6, High Range Ph 7.4

Have a Happy New Year, all.

Cheers,

Keith.