Fishless Cycle Help Ph Dropping Should I Do Water Change?

[h4hapoo]

Cassidy's tank is in the process of fishless cycle add and wait method. waterdrop and oldman47 will be familiar with my other topic. It was started on June 25. to start i will give you some stats
20 gallon with power filter by aqueon
temp 84 with gravel no deco yet but a couple of live plants.
Set up on 6/17 with gravel from existing tank (alisha's tank). also added dirty water from existing tank on advice from lfs (prob did nothing) added dirty water again (before ammonia was added to new tank) when my mom overfed fish and my ammonia went up to .25 (probably didnt do much)
started fishless cycle on 6/25 ammonia added at night (ammonia was harder to find then i thought it would be).
i have API liquid test kit

tap stats:
ph 7.6
ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10

there was no real changes in ammonia until day 5(6/29) and it dropped to 3 and then i tested nitrites and it was off the charts!
Day 6(6/30) dropped to .25 ammonia and nitrites still off the charts
day 7(7/1) ammonia was going to 0 sometime within 24hours and nitrites where off charts still
day 8(7/2) ammonia dropped to 0 in 12 hours and nitrites off chart that continued until.....
day 12(7/6) ph 7.2 (which is a drop) when nitrites dropped to 1 but ammonia was somewhere in between 1-2 (didnt drop to 0 like it had been) (night time reading which is when i add ammonia but was before i added ammonia of course). I still topped up to about 4ppm ammonia.
day 13 ammonia again only dropped to somewhere in between 1-2 ppm, Nitrites 0 within 12 hours (oh nitrate 40)
day 14 TODAY am reading was ammonia 4 nitrite 0
pm reading ammonia 2 ph 6.6 nitrite 0 Nitrate 40

Any advice please? i read in another post that ph drop might mean water change but that was for below i believe 6 and i am not there yet. why is my ammonia not being processed when nitrites are? is this normal in a fishless cycle? should i wait it out? did i leave any info out?

 

[waterdrop]

Well, at pH=6.6 you are not stalled yet, that happens at pH=6.2 more or less. Since its probably going to keep dropping it might be a good plan to consider when a water change would be convenient for you. You have the luxury of waiting until the weekend I'd say if that's helpful.

Do a 90% water change or a little less if that allows you to keep your filter going and saves trouble. Be sure to replace the water with conditioned (1.5x or 2x recommended conditioner dosing since its a young filter) water and rough temperature matching with your hand. Then absolutely don't forget to recharge your ammonia back up to 3ppm or so (while actually in the "nitrite spike" period you don't need to be dosing all the way up to 5ppm but you'll want to get back up there by the end of the overall fishless cycle, so you can be sure it was 5ppm that was dropped to zero ammonia and nitrite in 12 hours to start your qualifying week.) Whenever you do a water change its good practice to "practice" doing gravel cleaning (assuming you have a gravel cleaner siphon) even if there are no fish in there.

If you keep having trouble with pH dropping and dropping too fast then we'll consider more drastic means, but for now let's see what a water change accomplishes in terms of days/weeks until pH drops again.

Good to hear from you, Oliver's doing lots of basketball this week, hope the girls are having a good summer!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[h4hapoo]

i have only been raising it to about 4 might have gotten slightly higher once or twice but not much! I will test it all again in am of course and if it drops i will do a water change! hopefully i can get by til the weekend wouldnt that be nice afterall these long hours working in rain, ARGGG! glad you said something about upping dose on water conditioner i remember that now that you said something!!!!
I do have a gravel cleaner and oh boy do i have practice with it from alisha's tank! Alisha's tank has never fallen bellow 7.4 ph so i was shocked cassidys dropped! guess we will wait and see!
So Oliver is into lots of sports huh? thats good! Cassidy is into music and books rocks and nature! Alisha wants to play golf and horseback riding. She did a year of ballet and hated it to slow for her but starts gymnastics in sept! she just started to show interest in basketball but hates baseball much to my dismay
They are not having to much fun really has basically continued to rain for now over a month (and hail too!!) only had a couple good days! but we go out and splash in puddles then disinfect them after they have had there fun! Is oliver enjoying summer vacation so far? Summer vacation probably started alot earlier there then here you dont have snow days!!!! LUCKY

 

[waterdrop]

We've had months of perfect weather, not as hot as previous years. Oliver's baseball team is so good now its like sitting and watching minor league games, complete with details. There are these leagues now that have very complete parks, kinda wild. This week its back to basketball though, can't be away from that for long around here, and swimming summer champs are over yet. Glad you've got a gravel vac!

~~wd~~

 

[h4hapoo]

well PH is now at 6 maybe lower i dont know because my test only goes as low as 6. so i guess i will be doing a water change tonight. didnt add ammonia last night because it hadnt dropped below 2ppm.
so as of now
ph 6
ammonia 2
nitrite 0
didnt test nitrate since i know i have to do water change

 

[waterdrop]

poor dad no doubt resting if off now

 

[h4hapoo]

oh umm i'm like a dad but i am in fact a mom!! just not a typical one after all i am a carpenter (you wouldnt know it from looking at me!) who when i do concrete i wear pink rubber boots instead of typical black or yellow!

 

[waterdrop]

That's gotta be it! I hadn't seen you do concrete in the pink boots yet! I really got you confused somehow with some of the other dads, lol, sorry.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[h4hapoo]

Waterdrop its no big deal no sorry needed i thought it was funny! i can talk sports with you like the other dads. actually in some sense i am a dad i do both roles most days! but im not complaining!Actually if it wasnt for me they wouldn't know what baseball or basketball was because i love it and their father hates all sports (which i think is not normal at all!) We both bring stuff to the table to teach them so it works! I want my girls to not be afraid to try new things even if it isnt gender 'correct' but do it with manners, grace, morals & dignity! We had a beautiful day here today FINALLY!! Hope we didnt send the rain your way!
So onto the tank!
After about 90% water change my ph went to 7.2 and added ammonia to about 3 maybe slightly higher because i didnt test ammonia level after water change before adding ammonia (if you can follow what i am trying to say )
this morning my test results were
I somehow managed to not right ph level down and cant rely on my memory at that time of am
Ammonia .25
Nitrites 0

Tonight i tested and results are
Ph 7.0-6.8 i am having a heck of time deciding which color it is but the more i look at it the more i think 6.8
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 20

So Ph is dropping already but nothing to drastic as of yet. I don't really understand why it is dropping. Alisha's tank is not doing that all her numbers are perfect PH 7.6 ammonia 0 nitrites 0 nitrate 20 (water change day is sunday). so my assumption is that it has to do with the fishless cycling process. but why? has anyone else had this issue while cycling? the declorinator i am using now is by top fin previously i used the Tetra AquaSafe. but both tanks have the top fin in and only 1 is dropping so i dont think it could be that. but the good thing is that since the water change ammonia is being processed again!!!

any advice? i will post my morning stats!

 

[OldMan47]

It looks like you have your water under control H4Hapoo.
You boots remind me of what my youngest daughter tells me. If you are good enough, you can use a pink fluorescent bo staff and still win in the weapons competition at the tae kwon do tournaments. She knows what she is talking about there as a 2nd degree black belt that does very nicely at tournaments. Now that she is in her mid 30s, she doesn't spar as much any more but her skills are still good and I have watched her punch through 2 stacked patio pavers.

 

[waterdrop]

"So Ph is dropping already but nothing to drastic as of yet. I don't really understand why it is dropping."

After the nitrite oxidizing bacteria (the N-Bacs) convert nitrite(NO2) into nitrate(NO3) and it exists dissolved in the water, it is about 93% nitrate ion and 7% nitric acid, a very strong acid which is responsible for the leaving all the H+ ions out there in growing numbers, driving the tank pH down. During fishless cycling we are usually dumping in more ammonia than even a large stocking of fish would produce and so this process happens much faster than it does during normal running of the tank. Its an expected thing and depends also on the amounts of various minerals and their various carbonate ions as to whether those H+ ions are buffered to counter the downward trend.

Adding ammonia and doing a water change can each have an effect on this. Ammonia is a base and will swing the pH back upward. Tap water that comes out of the pipe system will have some amount of CO2 dissolved in it, often still a higher amount when the fresh tap water goes into the tank, but then that CO2 will gas out and the pH will also be raised by this. Both of these render the steady downward pH movement that can happen in lower buffered tanks less apparent.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[h4hapoo]

Oldman47 i like the way your daughter thinks! the pic was awesome! i think my mouth would drop open if one of my girls broke through patio pavers. My stepdad has blaack belts in a couple forms of martial arts and he teaches the girls some things and my oldest has one heck of a kick!

Seems for now my water is holding at ph 6.8 so i am still keeping an eye on that! i think it set back the process a little but it is still processing just not in 12 hours which is fine it will get there!

Waterdrop thanks for the explanation it helped i had to know why so i could understand it all!

i am starting to look into different filters i am not impressed with them so far i don't think alisha's is giving enough water movement. i have played with water levels and still doesn't seem enough.

Hope everyone had a great weekend!

 

[h4hapoo]

last nights readings were Ph 6.8Ammonia .5 (topped up to 3) Nitrites 0-0.25
This mornings readings PH 6.6 ammonia 1 and nitrites 0-0.25
well ph is dropping again it is now at 6.4 Ammonia is at 1 and Nitrate is at between 0-0.25
So it looks like i am stalled again. I hope you know what i mean between between 0-0.25 on nitrites its not the aqua/teal color for blue but also not the purplish color for .25 its like a blueish but light and looks like its between the colors but closest to 0 color (i retested everytime)
so hum water change tonight it looks like is there any options? i read that i think its limestone raises ph should i buy a small piece so i can get it cycled? does it seem that ph is dropping quickly?

 

[waterdrop]

I think your tap pH is 7.6? How long did it take between the last water change and it dropping to the pH=6.4 that you have now?

 

[h4hapoo]

yes tap ph is 7.6 i took about 4/5 days i changed water late on july 9th! but from last night to tonight it dropped from 6.8 to 6.4 so i think maybe i need to watch 6.8 as a sign to be ready to change the next night lol that seems to be when it does a quick drop and i dont want to keep stalling process.