Fish that should be less sold of because

[Boxcar Muzzdogg]

The info is more widely available than ever, the only way to stop something that shouldn't be happening is to make sure people who can't keep can't get.

Thats simply not true. Take guns in America for instance. A multitude of laws exist for limiting firearm purchases, who can purchase them, the processes one must go through in order to receive a firearm, and what type of firearms can be sold to the public. That hasn't stopped those who are not allowed to have firearms from getting them, it only limits the freedom of law abiding citizens.

 

[OohFeeshy]

Whats that got to do with root vegetables ?

Seriously though, thats a whole other story. Guns are for killing, people are likely to go to a heck of a lot more bother for a gun than a fish. Again, take oscars. If you say lfs's do a available by order only thingy. I have a 10g tank and want an oscar. Obviously since I'm being this stupid, I won't want to order online, which will be about the only place to get one without specificly ordering from the lfs. But thats costs a lot of money, I'm unlikely to go to that amount of bother for 'just' a fish.

Hmm, not sure the best way to put it, but thats how I interpret the buzz of gibberish in my system atm

 

[Boxcar Muzzdogg]

Your right, guns are different, but lets take red eared sliders (Trachemys scripta elegans). At a mall near my house there is a kiosk which sells baby red eared sliders. These people have business selling these turtles. They are sold in 1/4 gallon acryllic tank commonly used to store crickets. They are sold to consumers with absolutley no information whatsoever. The people selling them don't even know what kind of turtle it is. Then these idiots who thought the turtles were so cute and just had to have one, come to my store and ask me to tell them what kind of turtle it is and how to take care of it.

You should see the look on these morons' face when I tell them what is required to properly care for the turtle. Its not even that haard to take care of these turtles, but the sheer thought of having to apply a little bit of time, effort and money is enough to frighten most brainwashed consumers.

The illegal part comes in the fact that these turtles are too young to be legally sold. Yet there they are in a crowded, well known public shoipping center. So what is banning certain species going to do besides reduce the amount of easily accessible information on the banned species, and silmultaneously make them less available to those who could properly care for them. In such a case you would have those people who knew nothing of properly caring for the animals, buying them illegally, as you see with everything else that is banned.

Banning is for fascists.

 

[OohFeeshy]

The illegal part comes in the fact that these turtles are too young to be legally sold. Yet there they are in a crowded, well known public shoipping center. So what is banning certain species going to do besides reduce the amount of easily accessible information on the banned species, and silmultaneously make them less available to those who could properly care for them. In such a case you would have those people who knew nothing of properly caring for the animals, buying them illegally, as you see with everything else that is banned.

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Again, thats different. Illegal sales don't exactly happen with fish. Sellers are interested in buying cheap, selling high, buyers are interested in something that often is 'cute', cheap and something a bit different. The majority of large fish are, in all honesty, quite ugly. And can be expensive, and they're frankly not too exciting. People simply wouldn't bother. There are exceptions, as with everything, like goldfish. I'm also not talking about a total ban, just less sold. Theres plenty of species that look nice, are different, stay small and can be commercially bred or caught but for whatever reason, well, aren't. For instance, Rhinogobius Wui. By starting people off with smaller, commoner fish, the people who are truly interested are seperated from those who want a tank just for decorative value. Its easy to progress, after all, most people will have to order something they want eventually.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

So boxcarr, if they started selling great white sharks would you be happy with that as long as the lfs's told people how to look after them? Some fish being sold here like the wallago attu's and paroon sharks are just as dangerous and grow huge but are sold in their thousands in petshops, you need no license to own one and you don't need to know anything about them to buy one legally. You could even try keeping one in a 10gal tank if you fancied.
What about endangered species of fish- don't you think some of those should be banned in the aquarium trade? No lfs is going to tell you that the fish you are buying is an endangered species because most lfs's figure that people today have a certain amount of morality and would not buy it if they knew what it realy was.

I think there should be a limit on what size fish people can sell- anything that grows over one or one and a half foot long for example has to be specially ordered? Or how about licenses to sell various fish to people, like ones that could potentialy badly injure you like a piranha? And there just has to be some fish banned altogether, only only available to large public aquariums.

 

[MAM]

I'm with Boxcar on this, licensing would be more practical than banning. Certain species, and fish that reach over a certain adult size, one should be required to have a license to own. Now granted, it would have to entail more than filling out a form and signing a check. the person would need to meet certain requiremtne to obtain the license.
They're doing the same thing for various reptiles in many states here in the US, namely venomous species and species that if released into the wild, would survive and be detrimental to local wildlife. Implementing something like that internationally might take some doing. It may be a matter of enough countries dealing with the "problem" species before any sort of action, beyond new stories that do nothing to deter people from continuing to buy and then dump these fish, is taken to control the situation.

 

[Kopix Nation]

I love red sliders they are so cute!

claire

 

[andywg]

The info is more widely available than ever, the only way to stop something that shouldn't be happening is to make sure people who can't keep can't get.

Thats simply not true. Take guns in America for instance. A multitude of laws exist for limiting firearm purchases, who can purchase them, the processes one must go through in order to receive a firearm, and what type of firearms can be sold to the public. That hasn't stopped those who are not allowed to have firearms from getting them, it only limits the freedom of law abiding citizens.

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Yeah, but I can't see there being quite the demand for a pirannha on the streets as for a handgun.

Unless music stars make them popular

In Australia all sorts of fish are banned as it is a fairly fragile eco-system, and it works.

 

[JackDemp528]

I agree about the licensing. I mean people are out there buying these huge fish for little tanks. And we know they're going to have miserable lives. But they just keep buying. Like there was an older couple in WalMart a few months ago when I was there. And they were buying a 10 gallon tank, and an oscar for it. The guy selling this stuff to them didn't say a word, but I asked them if the tank was for the oscar. And after talking they said they were going to buy a bigger like 20 gallon tank for him later. And I said "Well no, a 20 gallon is way to small also, he'll need a 55 at the absolute minimum, but I'd go with a 75 or so. Then they decided that maybe they'd buy a bigger one sooner. So atleast I stopped one oscar from having a crappy life.

 

[xamdarb]

wow claire no offense or annything but your spamming really bad i noticed that in all the other post`s to.......anyways back to topic i think that the only fish that should legaly be baned in lfs should be endangered fishes. what you said about paroon sharks being as dangerous as a greeat white shark is a bit of a exageration. and i love pitbulls im actualy planning on getting one but big dogs like pitbulls german shepards and rotweilers are alot more dangerous than any fish on the market.... If fish started to get banned i think we would have alot less lfs to chose from considering they might not be maing enough money because not as many people would go through the hassel of getting the fish they want.....thats just my thoughs

 

[Boxcar Muzzdogg]

So boxcarr, if they started selling great white sharks would you be happy with that as long as the lfs's told people how to look after them? Some fish being sold here like the wallago attu's and paroon sharks are just as dangerous and grow huge but are sold in their thousands in petshops, you need no license to own one and you don't need to know anything about them to buy one legally. You could even try keeping one in a 10gal tank if you fancied.
What about endangered species of fish- don't you think some of those should be banned in the aquarium trade? No lfs is going to tell you that the fish you are buying is an endangered species because most lfs's figure that people today have a certain amount of morality and would not buy it if they knew what it realy was.

I wasn't trying to say nothing should ever be banned. But banning should be used sparingly (an adequate situation would be endangered species) but in most cases it does not work. The point I was making about banning, using the turtles and the handguns, which of course was taken out of context, is that banning only limist those who abide by the law, while those who do not will still be able to obtain the contraband fairly easily.

The situation is worsened by banning because, since most law abiders will not be interested in the fish, there will be less accessable information on that fish. Whereas those who opt to obtain the fish illegally will have a fish which they would not be able to readily get information on, and these are the same people who will be putting the fish into natural ecosystems.

For instance, I have lived in several areas wher dog fights were very popular (of course they're illegal). In these areas there were many people who bred pitbulls as fighting/guard dogs. Did these people know what they were doing? Absolutley not. At my current store I meet people all the time who have pitbulls bred for fighting. How do I know this? Because I feel them out in a conversation, and I have never spoken with a single one who knew how to properly care of the dog.

A couple of months ago Denver banned all pitbulls and immediately started confiscating and putting them to sleep. (this of course is just a small example of the ignorance of society). However, this of course will not deter lawbreakers from keeping and breeding these dogs, the very people who are responsible for dangerous dogs and their mishandling. What happens there is that now those who have the least amount of knowledge are the sole source of the banned animal.

I suggested liscenses which I beleive is a much better alternative to outright bans. Plus I think its wrong to bar responsible people the freedom of choice.

 

[Boxcar Muzzdogg]

Yeah, but I can't see there being quite the demand for a pirannha on the streets as for a handgun.

Unless music stars make them popular

You'd be surprised how many people want this fish because a certain lifestyle glorifies them. I once met an individual who would threaten to stick poeples' appendages in his pirrahna tank if these people did not give them the money they owed him. Needless to say the guy was an idiot.

 

[mattbeau]

why stop at just tank busters though, why sell any fish that is sensitive to all sorts of thing or are difficult to get to eat or keel over if they break a wisker.

as a side note why would it be so hard to get a gun in the US

buy a gun here

I'm actuall looking to get a pistol, I like to go shooting from time to time, and I expect it to be harder than just picking one up at store. luckily though there are many ranges thet will let you test various fire arms. sorry I'm drifting off topic.

I dont think banning anything really solves any problem. look at the war on drugs.

having educated LFs staff wont help either, its up to the consumer to research what they are looking for to a certain extent. the basics of fish keeping should be available upon buying a fish.

the problem with fish is its hard to do a test drve, unlike many other things in the consumer world, fish keeping takes a lot of time and effort and doesnt have that test drive ability, you wont trully know if you really like it or hate it for maybe a few months maybe a few years, but by that point you are so invested in the hobbie it is almost hard to let it go.

back to banning though

how do we even know that putting fish in a glass cube is ethical or not

what would be wrong with keeping an endangered species, obviously it isnt surviving in its own enviroment, giving it to the fish keeping hobby only gives it a better chance of surviving extinction.

either way, some great points have been made on all sides of the issue.

 

[Boxcar Muzzdogg]

what would be wrong with keeping an endangered species, obviously it isnt surviving in its own enviroment, giving it to the fish keeping hobby only gives it a better chance of surviving extinction.

The problem is that many fish can not be bred in captivity. Those that can may adjust to captivity and may not fulfill its proper function in the wild if it were to be released. The entire purpose of preserving species is to preserve the ecosystem in which, if one peice of the puzzle is removed, it effects every other organism.

As for the gun, I was referring to the various procedures law abiding citizens must go through in order to legally purchase and posess a gun, which criminals bypass. I was not saying that it wasn't easy to get a gun. They're givin em away at banks when you open up an account, so I'd say it isn't too hard.

 

[Briarmoor]

Of course this will never happen because that would cause a drop in sales, and business doesn't like drops, even if they're still reaping obscene mounts of money, and whatever business doesn't like, the government doesn't like either.

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No, some civil rights group would jump in and say that the government had no business telling people what kind of fish they could buy. Now when a species that can wipe out the native fish in a lake gets in the trade, that might change things. But it will be shutting barn door after the horse got out. Happens with plants too - think milfoil and kudzu.

People seem much more prone to buying inappropriate fish for some reason than inappropriate dogs, although they do that too.

A lot of people don't think past next week, if they even think past tomorrow, so reading that a Pacu is going to be 30 inches long (or whatever they get) just means at some point in the future, way down the road, further then they ever can envision, this fish might get big. But it's not right now.

They can't fathom the little fishy at the store can get that large anyway. Especially if they've never had the opportunity to see an adult one. Most people have seen an adult St Bernard, so they know that dog really will get big. They may not believe the fish really will. Seeing is believing. Having seen an adult red tail CF, I know that is one that I will never have. I don't have a spare 280 gallon tank around to keep one happy.