Fish Misinfo Frustrations

guppler

Fish Crazy
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Sacramento (City of the Governator)
:huh: a friend told me a couple of weeks ago that they were planning to use live goldfish as table decorations, and that I could have some if I wanted. I had to think about it, but decided it was not a great idea. She did have arrangements to sell most of them right back to the store, but a few went to new homes. While I was looking to see how cute they were and if any really wanted me to take them, I heard some things that eventually I couldn't even stick around listening to, although I did try to corrrect some of it. One reason I didn't take any was because my 2 goldfish are already crowded enough and are big enough to swallow some of the tiny feeders whole. When some kids were afraid of taking fish of very different sizes somebody ( who said he used to work at a pet store)told them "goldfish don't eat goldfish". I said they would if they could, and when I heard that they were not carnivores, I said they do eat earthworms, and some of those fish were smaller than your average worm. I told them how big mine were and warned one person they could get to be 12 inches long, and someone said they become koi at that point. part of what made me want to leave was a discussion between 2 people, 1 of which had used goldies to cycle water and test for diseases before putting in more expensive fish, and the other sounded like she'd never had a fish at all.ther were things like, "So a goldfish is the only kind of fish that can live like this?" ( meaning in a small bowl, without any filtration or aeration) I said they'd have to change the water a lot without filtration or aeration. I also heard that if you put a golfish in the same tank with any other kind of fish, the other fish will die, and that if you feed them too much they will explode. The one who uses them to cycle was trying to explain that she just feeds them once and they basically eat their poop aver day after that and don't need to be fed any more, only she was trying to be a little discreet and said they eat "the same thing" the next day, which the other person took to mean that they need a strict unvaried diet that never changes. I have mixed feelings about fish as decorations anyway. they are living creatures and should at least be treated reasonably humanely, but they are also just feeders in this case and it's not like there's any shortage of them in the world, and most were headed right back where they came from. I don't know if I should avoid this type of discussion in the future by not watching what happens when the decorative fish are done being decorations, or if I should get involved to try to help the little guys out if possible. :/ -_- :angry: :( :unsure: :crazy: :crazy: :grr: :sly: :sick: :fish: :fish: :fish: ????
 
Oh dear thats so sad. If it happens again why not make some flyers with just basic care of goldfish such as how big they grow, how many gallons they need, filtration and feeding, and give them out to whoever takes one. At least then you know you will have tried to help them.
 
Thats a sad story of people's ignorance adn arrogance of such a commonly abused fish in the hobby.
If you ever experience anymore conversations like that, its best to try and politely educate people a bit about such fish than keep out of the conversation altogether even if its disheartening, as you never know- you may just help discourage someone from putting another doomed goldfish in another bowl :good: .
 
yeah.
maybe I'll print something out or something. I still need to decide what to do tomorrow morning. I'mm thinking about trying to clean up the spa really fast just to have a big enough container.
( And the story gets worse....) My friend just told me today that she is still trying to decide what to do with all those fish. I was sure she was kidding for a second. I would have taken them back to the store imediately if possible, or at least the next morning. Actually I've never used animals as party decorations in the first place, but I thought they were going back. When I said I thought she was taking them back to the store, she said no they were still in the church, and for a minute Imthink she wanted to go get me a bowl of tehm, but she decided she'd rather wait until tomorrow. I must have said something about whethr any would still be alive by then and she said something about having removed some dead ones already. The last time I saw them they were all in 2 bowls, looking almost like canned peaches, only moving. :sad:
If I'd known she wasn't taking them to the store herself, I might have at least brought them home and put them in plastc containers temporarily. I'm not sure what to do. She did say to call if I want any, but I already said I don't know what to do with them, and she doesn't either. I told her she needed to find someone with a big pond. I wouldn't offer tham to my brother or put any direwctly in with mine, because Some of them didn't look real healthy even on friday night. I hate telling people they are wrong or doing bad things. I'm afraid it might already be too late this time, but if I do end up keeping any, they might have to be called lucky or something to do with beating the odds and being rescued or surviving unexpectedly.
 
yeah. In fact I'm thinking about calling my friend right now to see if she still has any live ones. She didn't want her kids to watch them die I think, and said she had thought about just throwing them out but didn't want to kill them. I suspect she'll think more before doing this again.

Ok I called my friend. maybe i'l rinse out my tub or look and see how much work that spa really needs. If I leave them in my bath tub it will be interesting to see What Ember thinks of them. Usually her water dish is in the tub. Both cats love to watch fish, especially if I put a relatively smal container with relatively big fish on the floor. Rosey especially gets into it and sometimes looks like she wants to pet a betta. I don't leave them unsupervised of course, I don'r know how long it would take her to knock them over, but I think she's managed to splash a little before. Now i just wonder if I can leave the bathroom door open to give Embr access to her litter box with fish swimming around in my tub. Rosey's litter box is downstairs, so Ember could use hers in a pinch, but she's really shy about going into Rosey's territory.
 
Leaving cats around fish is not a good idea even if supervised, i mean, what would you do if one of the cats grabbed one of the fish out of the water leaving the fish with severe injuries? The cats may enjoy the fish, but the fish will feel like they are being terorised.
If you don't have anywhere suitable for them, find someone with a pond or take them back to the shop or get them somewhere suitable to live in etc- anything will be better than small tubs for them right now, like a large plastic storage container or something :nod: .
 
Well, I now have about 50 goldfish fanging from about 1 inch to about 3 inches in a 10 gallon tank in my sister's bedroom. I turned on a couple of air stones full blast this morning, and the regular external power filter is running. When I picked them up there was 1 dead one in with the live ones, and it happenned to be a bout the cutest one, with a light pinkish golden apricot color overall and blackish edging to the tail. I called my brother and he and his wife came over. (without the hyper pug this time. She was worn out from their labor day fun.) They said thay would be willing to take 5-10 of the bigger ones, but I didn't want to encourage tehm to add them directly to their pond, and the only tanks they have right now have saly water because they have a new puffer and are abot to start a marine comunity. My brother said his wife is quickly developing a bad case of MTS. (when I explained what that was upon noting the symptoms) Before the pond about the only fish they'd had was a betta from their wedding. They're also still sorting out differing adivise about turtles and tadpoles for their pond.
anyway while they were over one of the plainer relatively large fish appeared dead, and I was about ready to bury it, when it moved, so I isolated it in a critter keeper with shallow water and it revbived remarkably, so I started calling it Lazarus. be for putting him back with the others we searche dfor identifying marks and foud a couple of missing scales right along the lateral line on 1 side. He looked about dead again by the time i put him in the tank, and by morning he was the first one mom removed, along with 6 tiny ones and later 1 more big 1. I burried the lot of them near the tomatoes. We lost some cute ones, but it was not unexpected.
I slept in too much to get to a store today, and I have to get to a class really soon now. I decided against the tub, partly because I cvan't guarantee it won't drain overnight. ( I do generally keep lids on fish that i let my cats watch, and they were quite timid about aproaching the large pan of goldies I left in the living room until my brother came over and I moved them to various different sized critterkeepers and finally to the guppy tank, from which the guppies were evacuated to the comunity and the other guppy tank.
The last time I looked, there were no new dead ones, but one has a sort of wormy lokking white thing hanging out of its flank.
 
hmm, I think the average bath tub can hold up to about 40 gallons, so if you can get a net to go over the top or something.. risking the cats getting a few is probably better than risking reeeeeally bad water getting most of them. I dunno, how many gallons do you have for each fish, at a guess?
 
another idea would be to buy a few of those large rubbermaid tubs from walmart or some such place. they are relatively cheap, and when the fish have moved on to new homes, they are stackable, or can be used for general storage (fishy or otherwise), or hospital/growout tanks :)
 
I was planning on storage tubs, and had 1 located, but not cleaned by the time they came home. (it had been used for bleaching flower pots and testing a disapointing floating solar fountain. and had brow algaeish gunk in the bottom and a big garden snail on the handle.-Those French people had to try to grow escargot in California, even though we rarely eat the stuff and it eats our gardens and produce. I think they should all come get their snails and take them back with them.) I was going to look for more, but they do seem relatively good in the guppy tank for now. I just don't know where the storage containers full of fish would go. I have netting that could help keep cats out, but I have very little floor space, especially near my tanks, and even less horixontal surface above the floor, especially if it has to be on something sturdy enough to hold 10 or more gallons of water.
I guess I really should give them more space though. The rescue fish really have less than a quarter of a gallon per fish if you divide their uncertain number by the 10 gallons I gave them.
I was wondering if I should have given them Cracker and Creamscicle's 20 gallons and moved my guys to the 10 g or My brother's pond. They haven't lost anybody from their pond since they lost all but 1 of their shubunkins, I think. It sounds like they're not particular about which fish I give them.
It is nice to see them swimming around randomly or bathing in bubbles insted of all sucking at the surface. Right now they look as good as most store feeder tanks, or better, considering that I almost always see some dead ones in store tanks, and I haven't seen a new dead one since before I burried the ones that died last night. Mom did get me some more bigger bubble stones, because she saw how much they appreciate them. i'll see what I can do about bigger storage tubs, but it is past bedtime for my sister, and she gets a bit cranky if we're in there messing with fish when she's suposed to be sleeping. (tells us to go away and turn lights off)
I want to figure out what's up with that wormy looking thing before moving them anywhere that could contaminate other fish. It could almost be a tiny shred of thin paper or plastic ribbon or thread or un frayed dental floss, but it does look likes it's coiled up inside the fishy's skin. i don't know if I should try to isolate the one or assume all have been exposed and could be carrying less obvious forms of the parasite. It's jus a little in front of the tail on one side. i have some anti parasite stuff, but I think it's mostly intended for ick, and I don't know if I need to treat them all, or precisely what they might have. i could try salt. I imagine I'll have to clean the tank well before putting the guppies back. I don't even know if a store should accept fish that might have parasites. I'll do some research tonight and try to make some calls early in the morning, well early for me anyway. It's really past time to sell some extra coreys anyway, and it wouldn't hurt to send a few guppies on with them.
It will be hard to choose which ones to keep. We lost most of the white ones, mostly with red caps. one had a red spot on each lobe of its tail and one had a red upper lip. I still have one with a red tail and hat. One is basically light orange with some white bands and mostly white face and belly, but with blood red streaks right around its mouth, but it looks more like pigment than an injury. It reminds me of a clown, and I keep trying to get a better look to see if that's the one that might have a slightly smaller fin on one side like Nemo. Another is almost cherry red with a white belly and some white on the fins. 3 are the light brownish yellow gold that I was considering because it's most different from the goldfish I already have and those all happen to be big enough that I know my guys won't eat them, but I don't know how much they'd let them eat. I've also looked to see if any might tur nout to be commets, like Creamscicle, who was also bought as a "feeder", but there isn;t much difference in their tails. They actually all look a little deeper forked that Cracker's tail, but I think Creamscicle's was much bigger at their age, except the littlest ones.
There is another feature to some of them that i'm curious about. I was even wondering if it could be breeding tuburcles for a while, but I don't think they're old enough for that. Some of them have thich solid looking white lomps between the eyes. It looks almost like eyebrows on the more extreme ones. It's even fairly atractive, especially on one of the bigger fish that is more reddish above and more yellow bellow. i really should get pics. Too late for the burried ones, but after the first pinkish dead one dried a bit I noticed it's eye looked like a pretty light blue.
 
oh they are fancy goldfish? ..I just assumed they where common/comets for some reason :S

This has got confusing.. the ones you are thinking about putting in a pond, are they fancy (short fat bodies and double tails)? because if winter is coming up where you live the fancies can only be out there for maybe a few more weeks before they should come in. Depending on the temp where you live.
This is kind of good because it means you will need less water in the long run, if you keep any.

For the tub that has had bleach in it, rinse it out really well then fill with water and a high dose of dechlorinator, that will nutralise any bleach left. Then leave it to dry in the sun. It should be safe for fish then.

..so how many fish are there left?
 
Actually they are feeders, but some of them have interesting colors. They are all long and skinnyish with single tails. When I mentioned the one with dots on the lobes of it's tail, I meant upper and lower, not right and left. Commets just have longer fins and shubunkins are like calico colors, but they are still good pond fish. I even read in 1 book that some shubunkins live longer than plainer fish, but in my family experience, they've tended not to last as long so far. Commets don't getquite as big overall as common commons, as I've seen from my first 2 goldies. Creamscicle started out bigger and grew fast about the time his long fins were developing, but then his growth slowed down a lot, and Cracker passed him up, so that Cracker is now clearly a biggger fish, but Creamscicle is longer just because almost half his lenght is tail. I don't know what's up with the white lumpy faces, but it seems a little less prominent on some of them now, and it is basically just a ridge between and around the nostrils in the most extreme cases. I hadn't noticed it on fish I'd seen before, and wondered if it might develop int something almost like a wen or pompoms, but on single tailed fish, I doubt it.
Mom's not liking the storage bin ideas. For one thing she says netting won't keep the cats out if they want to get in, and she thinks they look fine in the 10 gallon tank. They will definitely not grow to maturity in there. I just want to get them reasonably healthy before introducing them to established healthy habitats. They have been looking good since I added the extra bubblers, and the ones that died the night after they came home might have just had too much stress before I ever took custody of them. I kept forgetting to count as I transfered them, so I'm still not sure exactly how many I have. It might be more than it looks like, but mostly they are still pretty small. I might have been overestimating when I said 50. Mom has said something like 30 to 40, but I think she was subtracting the ones my brother wants or the ones she expected to die or something.
I had been thinking about eventually getting myself at least 1 more fancy goldfish since I lost Nugget and Chicken over a year ago, but I knew I didn't have space, so I was going to wait until I could get a very big tank or pond for my single tailed ones and then only get fancies for inside. My plans might have gotten changed for me. I guess we'll see what happens.
just as a side... I did go back in my sister's room to take pics of the goldfish and their tank late last night, and she was still awake, so i explained what I was doing. She actually wanted me to leave the fish light on this time and just talked to me until Mom came to see why she was still awake and talking. She was tired and got on the bed next to my sis, who told her to go away, but pretty soon, she changed her mind and told me to come lie down on the other side of her, and then she told me to take pictures of us with the camera. She was all giggly and wide awake, but Mom kept falling asleep and I finally said Ok I'm going to my bed now, because i really couldn't sleep in that little space between my sis and the wall, and I stll had stuff to do, like taking care of my sick betta and upstairs fishies.
 
You can get commons with wens sometimes, but it seems unlikely that they would all have it..
Try and get a picture of their heads before you put them in the pond, so we can make sure its not a disease or something. We dont want it spreading to your existing fish.

Show your mum some stuff online about how much water each goldfish needs to be healthy.. she should realise that 40 golfish in a ten gallon tank isnt very good. :no:

dont the storage bins have lids?
I'd risk the cats personally.. more are going to die anyway if you dont. cant you put it in a room and not let the cats in there?
 

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