Fish Jar

Uh, yeah. Unless you want to do daily WCs (if you can even call it wcs on a tank that small), and check the temp every 15 minutes, I'd say a big fat FAIL


a 5 gallon tank still isnt' that small, it's adequate space, especially if it was for a betta, also, why would you need to do daily water changes, I have a 5gallon hex blackwater biotope set-up and I do weekly water changes. In a tank that size if he had a single betta, weekly water changes of 50% would be fine.

Okay, fine. That's like sticking you in a 1000 Gallon fish tank and changing the air every 3 days. And I bet you have a heater and filter on your 5gallon hex biotope.


I do have a heater on the tank, however the filter was broken up until 5 days ago when I finally got the replacement in the mail. The tank was set-up for about a 3 weeks with fish in it, all I did was weekly changes and I have more than 1 fish in the tank.

People give fish a lot less credit for their resilience than they deserve, yes there are some very sensative species which in an aquarium situation will die in anything less than perfect conditions (discus come to mind) but luckily that is not the norm and most commonly available species including Bettas are a lot hardier than some people seem to think. It is only when you have studied fish in the wild that you can really understand how they interact with their enviroment and cope with the changes it goes through.


I agree with this 100% CFC ^_^
 
1) Bettas can live at room temperature, and if necessary a small heating pad could be provided.
2) Water changes are preformed by simply pouring water out of the jar and being filled up again with clean water.
3) Bettas don't need water flow, they live in puddles.

Bettas don't need a large amount of DO(Dissolved Oxygen) because they take in air from the surface.

Just a note on 3) Betta dont live in puddles, the wild variations live in rivers and streams and also some live in paddy fields style environments, where the surface area is large but shallow, not a puddle.
 
Just a note on 3) Betta dont live in puddles, the wild variations live in rivers and streams and also some live in paddy fields style environments, where the surface area is large but shallow, not a puddle.

You call it a rice paddy, I call it a large puddle.
 
A sudden change in temp of 3-4 degree's is actually enough to cause some fish to have dropsy, some fish cope with day and night fluctuations in temp a lot better than others

But we're not talking about a sudden change, no ones coming along and dropping a lump of ice in the tank and unless you live in a wooden hut in Alaska your house temperature isnt going to drop by 4 degrees the moment the heating switches off, if it does then i seriously suggest installing insulation and double glazed windows.
The temperature range in a single body of water at one time can vary greatly at different depths with the surface of the water actually being up to 5 or 6 degrees warmer than the water at the bottom, are you telling me that nature created animals that will become sick and die if they swim upwards or downwards? I have taken temperature readings from varying levels and distances from the bank in lakes and rivers while fishing (knowing the temperature lets you know where the fish are likely to be and how hungry they might be) and have been astounded at how much difference there can be in a few meters of water.




Well when i was living at my old flat and we had the powercut one of my tanks dropped from 25 degree's to 22-21degree's in less than 24hrs, i would call that a large sudden change in temp. Although it did cause the danio's in the tank i had at the time to spawn, most other fish would not fair well with such a large change in temp in a single day (the chinese algae eater i had at the time looked very pale and listless, obviously quite stressed from the change in temp).

Also, generally speaking, all coldwater fish i know of are a lot hardier than most tropical fish- take the common goldfish for example, it can live in temps anywhere from below freezing to a toasty 30 degree's C warm (although it probably wouldn't thrive at such a warm temp, it would survive it relatively easily though if there was enough oxygen in the water and the hot temps were not prolonged for too much in the long term)- a betta on the other hand would no where near survive that greater range of temps though, and i am sure if i dropped the temp in a betta's tank 4-5 degree's in a single day it would probably put a great amount of stress on the fishes body.

With temp toleration, yes a lot of fish can survive in a great range of temps, but i think it would be better to heat a tank than to let it fluctuate loads day and night, better to be safe than sorry as they say.

I've been to Singapore before and every time i go there it is always very hot and humid, the temperature and humidity levels hardly change at all through night and day, and i've heard that Thailand has a similar climate. Thus i wouldn't be suprised if betta's had adapted to a warm climate whose temperature stayed pretty constant and hot for most of the year around. Fish living in our seasonal climate though are probably a lot more adapted to the massively varying temperatures that we experience during the seasons.


In the wild, you will rarely see fish living in (let alone thriving in) very shallow waters unless it is a very hot country which is experiencing a dry season

How shallow are you thinking?

In any body of fresh water you will find many fish, large and small, in water 10 to 18 inches deep. The shallow water is warmer and gets greater light penetration here so food is more pleantifull and over hanging plants and marginal vegetation offer protection from predatory fish and birds, at further depths you will find less fish and in very deep waters you will find that the majority of the fish will be swimming at no more than a few feet from the surface. Again as a serious competition angler one of the methods myself and other anglers employ is to sit back well away from the edge of the water and actually fish right against the bank close to over hanging vegetation in water that is often no more than 10 inches deep.

People give fish a lot less credit for their resilience than they deserve, yes there are some very sensative species which in an aquarium situation will die in anything less than perfect conditions (discus come to mind) but luckily that is not the norm and most commonly available species including Bettas are a lot hardier than some people seem to think. It is only when you have studied fish in the wild that you can really understand how they interact with their enviroment and cope with the changes it goes through.



Yes but you are talking about ponds/lakes/rivers etc which have shallow area's but also have deeper area's in them, in the wild you simply would not find fish living in a pond whose deepest depth was 10-18inches deep since it would simply practically freeze solid or dry out every year and kill off all the fish. The main reason why you will see more fish spending time in the shallow area's during the day time is simply because they are there to hunt the insect and amphibian life which thrives most in shallow waters (which heat up quicker during the day time, so are good for developing bug larvae etc). Shallow waters are not actually the most protected from birds and predatory fish, they are actually the riskiest places for the fish to visit, since the shallower the water the easier they can get picked off by predatory birds like herons or animals like cats, while at the edges of the habitat the fish are more likely to get easily corned and captured by predatory fish etc- but the fish takes these risks to feed on the prey that generally thrives best in the warmer shallower waters, if they stayed in the safer depths all the time they would get half as much to eat etc.
During the winter time most fish spend a greater amount of time in the deeper area's of their habitat since there is less reason to go to the colder and less fruitful shallow waters in wintertime. I remember with my mothers goldfish pond, during the summer the goldfish would be very active in the shallow area's of the pond, but during the wintertime they would just dwell in a dormant like state at the bottom, since deeper waters are more protected from sudden changes in temp- i guess this must also mean that the goldfish don't like daily fluctuations in their pond temp, since if they didn't mind them then they'd spend more time at the surface of the waters.


I think at the end of the day, i think what temps a fish can survive or thrive in depends a lot on its natural habitat. Back at my old flat, fish like my danio's thrived and spawned when the temps suddenly dropped, because for them they must have thought that the rains had arrived with lots of fresh cold mountain water, but fish like my CAE visibly suffered though, i assume because they come from a habitat that is a lot more stable in temp.
 
Too many words.


??? If you don't have anything to say related to the discussion on the thread, then don't criticize others for what they say. This forum, amongst other things, is for the freedom of polite discussion on fish related matters, not the censorship/restriction of such things.
 
Simply put, a house even with crappy insulating isn't going to drop far enough, or suddenly enough to really affect a fish. Especially a betta...ya know...the things they keep in cups at stores...I'm not saying a cup is a good place for them to live, but don't you think those CRAAAZY temperature swings you speak of would have murdered that entire industry from the start?
 
From a power outage, I would say the fish would suffer from poor water quality more than temperature. When the power goes out, so do filters.
 
From a power outage, I would say the fish would suffer from poor water quality more than temperature. When the power goes out, so do filters.

Most muppets dont use filters with Betta anyway
 
From a power outage, I would say the fish would suffer from poor water quality more than temperature. When the power goes out, so do filters.

Most muppets dont use filters with Betta anyway

yeah, i hear peeps keep betta's swimming in their own waste? weekly water changes they say? but what about the other 6 days of ammonia?

or are betta's immune to the toxicity of the toxic ammonia?
 
Most muppets dont use filters with Betta anyway

I was referring to Tokis' tank there.



I don't really get what you mean, but if you're talking about the tanks i had running years ago that suffered during a big powercut and whose temperature plummeted, I actually tested the water quality in the tanks at the time and none of the tanks actually had water quality issues, the danio's wouldn't have spawned during such a time anyway if there had been water quality problems, so i put the CAE' distress down to the large drop in temp during the powercut.
 
Well when i was living at my old flat and we had the powercut one of my tanks dropped from 25 degree's to 22-21degree's in less than 24hrs, i would call that a large sudden change in temp. Although it did cause the danio's in the tank i had at the time to spawn, most other fish would not fair well with such a large change in temp in a single day (the chinese algae eater i had at the time looked very pale and listless, obviously quite stressed from the change in temp).

A tank dropping 4 degrees in 24 hours will have no ill effects on any of the more common tropicals, the vast majority of people with large or multiple tanks and fish much more sensative than your average betta will do 25% water changes and drop the temperature by 3 or 4 degrees in an hour. And your chinese algea eater was probably stressed from lack of oxygenated water rather than the cooler water as they actually preffer cooler water than most tropicals as they come from fast flowing streams.

Yes but you are talking about ponds/lakes/rivers etc which have shallow area's but also have deeper area's in them, in the wild you simply would not find fish living in a pond whose deepest depth was 10-18inches deep since it would simply practically freeze solid or dry out every year and kill off all the fish. The main reason why you will see more fish spending time in the shallow area's during the day time is simply because they are there to hunt the insect and amphibian life which thrives most in shallow waters (which heat up quicker during the day time, so are good for developing bug larvae etc). Shallow waters are not actually the most protected from birds and predatory fish, they are actually the riskiest places for the fish to visit, since the shallower the water the easier they can get picked off by predatory birds like herons or animals like cats, while at the edges of the habitat the fish are more likely to get easily corned and captured by predatory fish etc- but the fish takes these risks to feed on the prey that generally thrives best in the warmer shallower waters, if they stayed in the safer depths all the time they would get half as much to eat etc.
During the winter time most fish spend a greater amount of time in the deeper area's of their habitat since there is less reason to go to the colder and less fruitful shallow waters in wintertime. I remember with my mothers goldfish pond, during the summer the goldfish would be very active in the shallow area's of the pond, but during the wintertime they would just dwell in a dormant like state at the bottom, since deeper waters are more protected from sudden changes in temp- i guess this must also mean that the goldfish don't like daily fluctuations in their pond temp, since if they didn't mind them then they'd spend more time at the surface of the waters.


Tokis we're not discussing coldwater fish here, we're discussing tropical fish from tropical climates, i dont think the rice paddies and blackwater streams are going to freeze over in any time soon :wink: The tropics dont have winters, they have dry seasons and wet seasons and the sun is up and down for the roughly the same time period every day 365 days a year, during the day it gets very hot and humid and during the night it can get very cold as all that moisture in the air begins to cool down.
Marginal waters offer far more protection than deeper waters as the fish will have aquatic vegetation, over hanging branches and root systems from trees to take shelter within, in the deep they are on their own and only the biggest will survive. Ever been Pike fishing with a live bait? Well the best way to catch a Pike is to present your bait just over the marginal shelf so the bait fish is swimming above the deep water, the Pike sit at the edge of the shelf and attack upwards at any fish that strays over the edge, this behaviour is classic of predatory fish all over the world whether they be snakeheads in Asia, peacock bass in the Amazon or Nile perch in Africa.

http://www.fbas.co.uk/Siamese.html notice how the water doesnt even reach the child knee, i'm guessing that the distance between that childs foot and his knee is no more than 15 inches and :eek: he's catching wild Bettas from in the plants and roots!
 
Yes i guess i agree with you that lack of oxygen could have had a part to play in the chinese algae eaters stress. I'm beginning to agree with you a lot more on the heating thing too, i guess as long as room temps stay tropical or warmly sub-tropical then there's probably no harm even if there are fluctuations in temp.
 

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