fish food and new tank probs

alexfenton

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Hi, I've just set up my fish tank again. Went to the aquarium, bought 6 tropical fish, a plant and some expensive tank conditioning bacteria. All of my fish but 1 have died, and I looked after them pretty much the same as last time I used the tank, and the fish lasted longer. I was pretty baffled, but then noticed that my large tub of fish food is almost a year out of date. I just never considered that it might go out of date like that - could this be the cause of my fishes untimely end do you think?
cheers for any help,
Alex
 
It may have been some form of bacteria, but had you cycled your tank ensuring that ammonia and nitrite readings were zero before you added the fish?
 
Hi, we just took the recommendation of the shop, which was to buy some decent bacteria. They didnt recommend testing the nitrate levels, so we didnt buy a tester.

I used tapsafe in the water and left the tank for a while before we bought the fish. Do you think out of date food could be that bad? Or is it more likely something else would you say?
 
Firstly;
a. what size tank is it/how many gallons does it hold?
b. What type of fish did you buy?

Buying test kits that test for ammonia, nitrates and nitrites are essential when first starting a new tank as it is the only way to moniter what stage of cycling your tank is at and when to do water changes etc.
 
It sounds to me like your tank hadn't cycled fully (this can take up to 30-40 days even with adding filter bacteria) and your fish died of ammonia and/or nitrite poisoning.
 
its a very small tank, probably the smallest starter tank you can get, its maybe about a foot long. I cant remember the names of the fish, there were 4 small orange ones and 2 larger grey/red/blue ones with low hanging antenna type things.

Interesting about the tester - the number of people in shops I've spoken to about setting up a tank, you would have thought they would try to sell me one, or at least advise me that I should add the bacteria, and then come back to the shop after 30 days?

Is it more likely that the levels of ammonia and nitrates were wrong, than the out of date food - or could the food have affected these levels and me not known because I didnt have a tester? Could the food have contributed, or do you think its probably more than likely because we werent advised to use a tester?
 
The cycling killed the fish, and you realy should have found out what type of fish you were buying but anyways....
Are you still interested in fish keeping? we at TFF can help you out a heck of a lot more than the people at your lfs and show you how to cycle a tank properly without fish dying :nod:
If the tank was about a ft long it was probably a 10gal which is fine but you realy cannot fit that many fish in it and if you want more than 6 platy sized fish i suggest you for somthing bigger as you will probably be wanting a bigger tank anyway soon.
 
yes, it is a small tank, but I'm sorry to say that I dont have lots of money to invest in the hobby. I always forget what my fish are called. I think I'll start from scratch, cycle the tank and write down the names of the next fish I get.
The last time I set up my tank in the same way - they lasted for 2 years, and I didnt do anything different.

Would you throw away the out of date food? it says 06/04
 
Yes i would chuck away the food because as fish food goes stale its nutritional content goes down thus your fish could not be getting evreything they need.
You can also use this site top find out how many gallons/litres your tank holds which is important to know as it will give you an idea on how many fish you can put in the tank safely;

http://users.bluecarrots.com/dave.mann/pet...in/tankcalc.htm

what does the tank have in it i.e gravel/sand, lighting, filter, heating etc?
 
okay - so the food probably didnt help, but the cycle probably killed the fish. I dont think it was overcrowded - the tank is 15" by 8" but only had 4 tiny fish and 2 slightly larger fish, thats 3.46 Gallons approx and Max. units of fish: 10 Inches . We asked for hardy fish that wouldn't fight. The larger one did go for the others a bit, and its the only one left! Although they didnt seem to be injured.

I think I need some black tetras again, as they seemed to last years.

The tank has gravel, a light, a filer. It had a plant, but it didnt have roots seemingly, so we had to take it out.

Would love to own a bigger tank, but I dont have the cash :(
 
The food didn't have anything to do with it. Out of date fish food simply has a lower nutrient level (making feeding it pointless) but it wouldn't kill them.

Firstly, your tank was likely a 10 gallon tank. The fish you got must have been some kind of livebearer - probably platies - and the ones with the feelers would have been gouramies.

First of al you probably had too many fish for the tank - though I can't say without knowing the exact species of fish. In future, research what fish you are going to buy and make sure you never impulse buy. Most fish start out life at about the same size - many will then grow to over a foot long or are too fragile or have specific requirements.

Which fish survived? Can you describe it or post a picture?

You say you added 'bacteria'. What was the brand name? Most of these products are useless.

Regardless, if you added the bacteria and then left the tank to run for a few days, the bacteria would have died anyway by the time you added your fish.

You also added too many fish, too quickly.

I suspect you have never heard of cycling.

Basically, fish produce waste. Waste contains ammonia. Ammonia is deadly. Good bacteria grow in gravel and filter media. Good bacteria eat ammonia and turn it to nitrIte. NitrIte is also deadly. More good bacteria grow in gravel and filter media. They eat nitrIte. They produce nitrAte. NitrAte is harmless if kept at low levels. You take out nitrAte by doing weekly 25% water changes with de-chlorinated water.

This whole process takes about 6 weeks with fish. You are supposed to monitor ammonia and nitrIte. When they are ZERO, the water's safe for fish. Anything higher is toxic. If you test the water during a cycle, you'll see that after about a week the ammonia reaches its highest concentration (it 'spikes') and this is the most dangerous time for fish. Afterwards, good bacteria convert this ammonia to nitrIte and eventualy the nitrIte also spikes while the ammonia is decreasing. Finaly, ammonia and nitrIte both reach 0 and the water is safe. The nitrAte is high and you need to do water changes to keep it under 40ppm - prefferably under 20ppm (parts per million). Your test kit will show you when the tank is safe for new fish.

In your size tank, the one fish that has survived is all you need to cycle it. If it is a gourami, however, I would take it back to the LFS and do a fishless cycle (I'll explain later) as they are more fragile than platies. Once ammonia and nitrIte are at zero, you can think about adding more fish - but only once the tank is fully cycled and you have researched the species you are after and only if they are compatible with the fish you already have.

You can speed up the cycling process by going to your LFS and asking for some gravel and/or filter media from one of their HEALTHY established tanks. This will introduce some of the beneficial bacteria to your tank and give you a good start.

If you decide to start over, I would do a fishless cycle. What this involves is adding ammonia to the tank in an artificial way (ie not from fish waste :p). You can either add pure ammonia like that used for cleaning or add fish food daily as if you have fish. The fish food will rot and ammonia will be produced. From this point on, the cycle is identical to that with fish. You still have ammonia bein converted to nitrIte and then nitrAte and the usual spiking. However, fishless cycles are MUCH quicker as you don't need to worry about the fish' well-being (as there are no fish) so you don't need to do water changes (which decreases the amount of ammonia/nitrIte and so reduces the amount of food for the bacteria and slows the process). It is also a lot less stressful for both you and the fish and you aren't risking anyone's life!

There are links in my signature concerning all this stuff so please do read them.

Oh and before I forget - use de-chlorinated water for water changes (I suggest you do a water change every other day now that your tank is cycling with fish and monitor the parameters in case there's a spike - then do another water change if the levels are too high). The chlorine added to tap water kills your good bacteria so using tap water directly with removing the chlorine kills of the good bacteria in your gravel and filter. Similarly, don't wash your filter media in tap water. If the filter gets clogged up, use some old tank water in a bucket to carefuly rinse all the muck out. Avoid changing your filter media - ever - unless it starts to disintegrade, there's no reason to do so. If it becomes incredibly bad and rinsing won't do the trick, replace one bit of the media at a time - over a period of 2-3 weeks.

Good luck :)
 
hi, thanks for all the info, I change about a pint of the water every week, or 2 pints every 2 weeks and I use a drop of tap safe in it.

The tank wasnt overcrowded I doubt, as we like you say, we had 2 gouramis like this:
http://www.aquariumfish.net/images_01/gour...le_002_w190.jpg

and 4 much smaller plain bright orange fish (probably platies like you say), they looked a lot like this:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/C...ge_wag_male.JPG

I'll keep changing the water and see what happens, then take a trip to the aquarium again. We explained EVERYTHING about the tank and got the advice from the shop - but it sounds like they advised us badly.

They told us to buy this cup of bacteria stuff out of a machine from germany (that was apparently monitored from germany!), and sold us the 6 fish at the same time, so we put the stuff in the filter, then added the fish as we were advised.

I think we need to go back to the shop, and then follow all of your excellent advice above. I am baffled though, as my last fish lasted a long time and I did exactly the same.

The one left is a gourami also.
 
I agree with sylvia's advice, hope you have better luck with your new cycle; remember though that doing your own research on fish is so vital i cannot say it enough, i would avoid buying anymore fish and just take the gourami back to your lfs, but it depends on how you want to cycle your tank realy.
Good luck :thumbs:
 
thank you for all the advice. You do kind of trust the people in the shops to give you the right advice, but I take the point that its probably safer to do your own research also. I can see doing this properly takes a lot of time! thank you all,
Alex
 

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