Fish dying very rapidly

[ladynaoko]

Ok, here's the story so far.

I have a 15 UK Gallon tank which was home to 1 betta, 1 bristlenose pleco and 7 platy fry (just added to store them somewhere for a few days - not permenant inhabitants).

On sunday, Dec 5th I bought 5 Rummy nose tetras from my LFS to finish the group.

On monday, Dec 6th I found two of the Rummy noses dead from unknown causes (I assumed it was due to the rough handling by the guy in the lfs and the fact he made me stand there for 40 MINUTES with them in the bag for no good reason).

On Tuesday, Dec 7th nothing else had happened so i assumed all was well.

On Wednesday, Dec 8th I was very upset to find Buxton dead at the bottom of the tank - Buxton wasn't in the best state previously so I accepted his death had been inevitable despite the fact that the past few day's he'd been making real progress. Buxton's story can be found here - http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=67408

When I went upstairs that night I found Jeff the bristlenose pleco dead as well - Jeff had been in good health and this was completely unexpected. I lifted the hood to remove the body to find 3 of the young platies dead as well. This was all within a few hours of finding Buxton dead and all had appeared to be fine earlier in the day.

On Thursday, Dec 9th I saw one of the platies looking iffy - she had what appeared to be RED spots on her body. Within 2 hours she had died.

Now Today (Dec 10th) no further deaths have occured but one of the rummynoses is looking "iffy" - it looks like the skin is either coming away from his back or someone has been trying to eat him.
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Now, the technical stuff.

After EVERY death I've taken water readings for nitrite and ammonia and they've all read 0 on both counts each time.

On wednesday after finding the large amount dead I did a 10 litre water change and added a small amount of methelene blue (1ml).

Any advice?

 

[SRC]

Did you quarentine the tetra's first?

They could have been infected with something from the pet store.

If it were my tank, just to be safe, I would remove the still living fish to another bowl/tank without any other fish in them ...and I would nuke that tank before I put anything else in it. (I'd nuke the one I put them in after I removed them as well too, after I found out what was wrong with them).

Seems odd that after adding those Pet Store fish..that suddenly all your fish have died.

*****
But I'm not even close to the most qualified here...and I am paranoid about introducing diseases brought in by infected fish...so, take my advice for what you feel it is worth.

Good Luck

 

[tekknocolor]

Did you quarantine the rummy nose tetras before adding them into your community tank? It appears that they had some sort of disease that spread to your other fish. (Just saw what SRC posted... beat me to it)

Now Today (Dec 10th) no further deaths have occured but one of the rummynoses is looking "iffy" - it looks like the skin is either coming away from his back or someone has been trying to eat him.

What do you mean by the skin coming away from his back? Does it look like raised scales? Do you know if any of the fish have been trying to attack him?

 

[ladynaoko]

What do you mean by the skin coming away from his back?

I've actually asked for others opinions on this in my household (plus nearly every guest has been dragged upstairs to give their opinion on it).

It looks like one of the other fish has bitten a chunk out of his back and I can see a little soreness around the area. It's all very confusing . Earlier today I swear I saw some loose skin around the area - this has gone now.

Here are some pictures I took - they were very dark so I had to tweak them a bit, I've circled where the damage is.

As you can see in this picture there's a pale circular area just under the fin and there are a "dents" in the flesh above it.

In this picture you can see the flesh of the back in uneven - hence why I said it looked like there were chunks missing from it.

If I can get better pictures I'll add them.

As for quarantine - I have no room for a quarantine tank. That's the honest truth, there is absolutely no way I could find room for one despite me nagging and nagging and nagging at my parents to get me one. As for removing the fish (as SRC suggested) I have nowhere to move them to - all I could possibly do is stick a plastic critter cage half on half off a heat mat - thats if I can find room for it.

 

[SRC]

I have all mine on heating pads right now.

Just be sure to test the water/heating pad before adding your fish..as you could easily *boil* them.

You'll want to add your de-chlorinated water(having it already the temp you desire speeds this process up greatly), put it on the heating pad set to LOW to begin with, and wait a hour then check the water temp to see where it is. Wait another hour and check it again. This way you will know that the temp is going to remain the temp you desire and not flucuate on you. DO NOT add your fish until you are sure the temp is stable!!!!

If it is too hot..move it a little more off the heating pad..and wait an hour for the water to re-adjust (advice..don't sit the tank square on the heating pads wires, there is a large section in the middle where the heating element is..on a small tank it will make your water WA Y too hot..keep it as much off that as you can..without lowering your tank temp too much). This process could take anywhere from 2 (minimum) to 6 hours to find a suitable spot on teh pad.

My suggestion is to do this with the bare heating pad (that's how mine are) and sit the heating pad ON the cover it comes with (this will keep it from scorching whatever you have it sitting on). A baking pad is also another good thing to sit it on. Put the pad on the pan then sit it on teh cover, as a *pot holder* persay.

If you *NUKE your tank, you will have to Cycle it again..so you will want to have some sort of air going to the quarentine tank. And since it will probably be so small and unable to filter it properly (unless you buy those disposable filters at Wal-mart)..you'll want to do daily or bi-daily (depending on how many fish are in there and how much water the quarentine tank holds) water changes.

*notes*
1. Make sure you are using a MOIST heating pad..as these are waterproof..others ARE NOT.

2. If the heating pad Billows (swells up from teh pressure of the tank) take a saftey pin, UNPLUG THE HEATING PAD, and poke on hole towards the outside edge in the heating pad. This will let the trapped air out, but water will not go in..unless you sit it in a puddle lol.

**************
And from now on..don't add anymore fish without quarentining them before adding to your community . (I think I'd find a new place to buy fish too if it were me).

 

[ladynaoko]

thanks SRC

I'm going to see what happens during the next few weeks >.<
This whole thing is really depressing me. I don't even want to look at my fish right now.

Where heat mats are concerned - all the ones we have here are on thermostatic control so once they reach a certain temperature they stay like that, plus I would only have the tub on 1/2 way.

I just really can't believe all this is happening - the exact ame thing happened with my larger tank (I lost 11 fish to a mystery disease that time as well..).

How would I go about nuking the tank afterwards if I do it? do I have to basically strip out of the tank and get rid of everything? plants, sand, decor?

 

[SRC]

How to NUKE a tank

 

[gale]

And from now on..don't add anymore fish without quarentining them before adding to your community . (I think I'd find a new place to buy fish too if it were me).

I can't imagine that everyone quarantines fish before adding them. I don't have a quarantine tank or room for one and I would guess a few others, especially new fishkeepers like me, would also not have an extra tank lying around. I can understand the risks though, I guess.

 

[blue_ram]

And from now on..don't add anymore fish without quarentining them before adding to your community . (I think I'd find a new place to buy fish too if it were me).

I can't imagine that everyone quarantines fish before adding them. I don't have a quarantine tank or room for one and I would guess a few others, especially new fishkeepers like me, would also not have an extra tank lying around. I can understand the risks though, I guess.

Quarantine "tank" doesn't have to be an aquarium. For the longest time, my quarantine tank was a clear rubbermaid 10gallon tote. It came with a lid, so I didn't need a hood. I always (used to) had a sponge filter running for this situation, so I would just move the sponge filter into the 10gallon tote. Stick a heater on a large plate, and place an air stone under/next to the heater. Feed the quarantined fish well, and observe them for at least 2 weeks for signs of disease.

At the end of the quaratine process, clean out the quarantine "tank", and store your junk there....

EDIT: Remember, all the equipment for the quarantine tank can stay in your primary aquarium as a backup!

 

[gale]

Oh wow that's so cool. I never would have thought of that. Thanks!! I'm not planning to add to my tank for a while (other than a female betta and I can quarantine her in a gallon jar) but if I do I'll use your method.

 

[SRC]

Some people don't quarentine..but all people should. Sometiems peoepl get lucky, then others have horrible tragedies.

Most fish, at pet stores..and walmart especially, are not treated very well. They are expendable and uncared for in most instances. They don't have clean water on a regular basis, and if there is a sick fish in the community..it is usually left there to fend for itself until it dies..then it's tank mates munch on it. And if you'll notice, most pet stores have their fish on one huge system..just fish in different tanks..so that water is filtered thru ALL tanks..so that would mean ALL fish could possibly be infected.

You don't know if a fish was removed, that has a bacterial infection or some kinda parasite, 10 minutes before you walked up...so you have no idea what any one of those fish could be carrying/hosting/hiding.

Then you bring it/them home and plop them down in your tank...and guess what, a few days later your fish start dying. Because you didn't know they were infected for a few days..and they went untreated...then most times it's too late when you finally notice something is deadly wrong.

Just best, although inconvienent, to always quarentine new fish before adding to your established community. In all actuality, it's best to quarentine them before adding them if you buy them all at the same time, even if they came from different tanks.

No one ever said fish keeping was easy lol.

 

[gale]

ok I have another question about this makeshift quarantine tank. I don't have a sponge filter, only two HOB filters. I could get a corner filter but couldn't really use used floss since I really don't want to set it up in my big tank. Could I hang some gravel in a sock in the quarantine tank to help w/ bacteria? I'm assuming you can't just keep fish in it for 2 wks without some kind of cloning or cycling.

 

[sylvia]

Yes you could but it would be much better to invest in a small sponge filter though just adding some gravel, an airstone and regular water changes and tests should be enough. The reason I encourage getting a sponge filter is for when you find yourself with several fish you need to quarantine or that are sick and need to be isolated in a hospital tank. If this happens, which is usualy inevitable anyway, you'll need more biological filtration than just a bit of gravel. Also, if you decide to breed any of your fish, you'll find an extra sponge filter comes in very handy. Remember to disinfect anything in your quarantine/hospital tank before putting them in your main tank and don't use live plants or house invertabrates as they may carry diseases or not allow for certain treatments.

 

[ladynaoko]

amazingly I think I've found the problem.

Velvet. Of all the things that could be causing so much darned damage >.<

I did a thorough inspection of a dead fish i found today (it was that bad tetra) and it had a sort of gold sheen to it - Unless you held the fish really up to the light and moved it around it was very hard to see - hence it would be near impossible for me to see it on the fish whilst they were in the tank. After finding another dead tetra this afternnon (he'd started looking iffy after I logged off yesterday) I found the same thing.

So yeah, looks like velvet to me >.< I had trouble recognising it the last time I had it when I started fish keeping & lost nearly all of my fish back then too.

Treated it with Interpet #7 anti-slime and velvet. Hopefully things will start looking better now...

 

[WILDER]

Just to make sure you haven't got any neon tetra's in the tank have you.