Fish Dying, Need Help Starting Over!

[HeatherS88]

Okay so I am a new tank owner and I was not experienced at all, I didn't know anything about ph or levels or anything I just jumped right into filling the tank, adding the tap water chemical and adding fish from various pet stores. I believe I have a 30 gallon(bought used)The measurements are 24 W x 12 3/4 D x 17 1/2 T (inches) bowfront if anyone can confirm the exact gal. amount. Okay here's the story, I started with a 10 gal. and added various fish from walmart and another pet store(had no problems that I knew of) then I started reading alot about ph and starting messing with it alot to try to get it right(the tank was not cycled)well my fish got ich, it started with one and spread even though i was treating with meds(which i found out that was not the safest bet for the fish) I tried 2 different types of medications, the first one was drops that didn't have an effect and then i used ick guard fizzers, well in the midst of all of this i found a used tank and cleaned it with soap and water(which i know now is not good either) transferred the fish thinking that the fizzers would take care of the problem, and when I thought it was all gone i discontinued treatment, well I added 2 angelfish to the tank of 4 platys, 2 baby platys in a breeder tank, 1 fantail guppy, 1 feeder guppy, 1 i think mixed fish, a flounder and a pleco, over the weekend i got sick and when i checked on monday my marble angel had ick, so i treated with maracide(as referred by the petstore) they said I would not have to do water changes, I also heated the tank up to 82 degrees the marbles ick fell off but i know it lives in the gravel so treatment is over as of yesterday and my gold veil angel has ick spots also my marble now has fin rot and red streaks which in reading online i've constituted it as ammonia poisoning. I did a 75% waterchange yesterday and refilled trying to keep the same temp but I think I failed and made it too warm, my 2 baby platys passed yesterday and my marble angel passed today. My idea is to clean my 10 gallon with vinegar and water? and transfer the fish into that with no gravel or decor? but I'd like to speed the cycle up on that and am not sure how to cycle a tank and cannot find any "cycling for dummies" online so hopefully someone can tell me how? then I want to clean my 30 gal with vinegar and water, clean the decor, chuck the plants and gravel and buy new ones and use my cycled 10 gal as a quarantine tank. I cannot read the ph strips well and it doesn't really tell me whats norm and what's not so any suggestions? when I noticed my marble angel dying tonight i took a reading it was nitrate 0 or 20, nitrite 1, ph 6.0, KH 180 and GH 120 but I don't know what all that means, I know this is long and it's alot to return but it would be greatly appericated. so if you can include a way to speed the cycle up in my 10 and slowly cycle without meds in my 30 that would be great. Thank you for taking the time to read my problem! hope someone can help

 

[fluttermoth]

Hi Heather; sorry to hear of your troubles.

Your problem is that your tank isn't cycled; that means it hasn't got a colony of good bacterai living in the filter to eat the poisonous fish wastes.

What you need to do now is keep the fish wastes (ammonia and nitrite) down by changing lots of water while you wait for the bacteria to grow.

From your results, I'm guessing you're using the paper dip strip tests, as they never seem to do ammonia, which is very important as it's the most poisonous (and they're not very accurate either).

You need to get a proper liquid or tablet test (one that uses a test tube) for ammonia (and nitrite as well if you can, but ammonia's the most important right now). Test the water every day and if it shows any ammonia at all do a big water change with warm, dechlorinated water. It doesn't have to be exactly the same temperature, just roughly. Leave just enough water for your fish to swim upright, and don't touch the filter; leave that in peace for the bacteria.

You can also read up on 'fish-in cycling' in our beginner's resource centre (the link is in my sig) which will hopefully help explain anything I haven't made clear.

Best of luck, and do post back if you need any more help; there's always someone around here to answer questions

Oh, and welcome to the forum!

 

[HeatherS88]

Thank you for the welcome wishes! the problem is my tank still has ick and I cannot get rid of it for the life of me! I've tried 3 different types of meds and i don't want to try to cycle the tank if i'm still adding chemicals to get the ick under control, i really am at a loss and don't know what to do ..

 

[karin]

You need to change priorities. First you have to get the nitrites to zero (and probably ammonia as well) or your fish will surely die. After that, you can deal with ich.

This is what I would do if I were you.

1. Read the beginner's resources section focusing on cycling here:

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/277264-beginners-resource-center/

2. Buy a liquid based test kit that includes nitrite and ammonia tests. Most people like the API master test kit.
3. Do not listen to workers at WalMart or other fish stores as they just want to sell you stuff. Time you become the fishkeeper and water manager. It is fun and very rewarding when you can figure this all out yourself.
4. Start now, doing 80% water changes daily until you get the test kit. When you get the test kit, test daily and do water changes daily to keep the nitrite/ammonia at zero. This may help your ich. Your fish are massively stressed and slowly dying and can't fight the ich well now.
5. When daily tests are getting to nitrite 0 and ammonia 0 without water changes, reassess the ich. Ask questions here. If you decide to treat for ich see below for an ich treatment regime that is a little more complete than the normal. I have it linked in my signature.

Good luck. We are here to help. Start following the "new freshwater tank" section forum on this site for more info. And brace for more deaths before it gets better and know this is a common mistake and a common problem. You will get through it.

P.S. This tank is too small for angel fish that need a min. of 30 gallons and a min depth of 17-18 inches.

 

[HeatherS88]

Thank you for the reply I am going to read up in the link you gave me, start water changes and go get some test strips. And I'm pretty sure that the tank is a 30+ gallon, from top to bottom it's 17 1/2 inches and on the sides of the tank from front to back it's 12 3/4 .. my husband said that was depth and he may be right and i do need a bigger tank

 

[fluttermoth]

Karin is exactly right about where your priorities nedd to be. Ich doesn't kill normal, healthy fish that quickly; and even catching ich is very often a sign of stress from poor water conditions.

Do some big water changes over the next couple of days; test for ammoina if you can,and keep that as close to zero as you can.

If you can get some carbon to put in your filter, do that too; get rid of all traces of medicines out of your water and then see how things look.

 

[HeatherS88]

Okay I have done an 80% water change and haven't been able to go out and buy new testing supplies, won't be able to until Thursday. I was able to keep the water temp about the same it's been 80 - 82 because of the ich. Does this mean my tank is cycled if I can get the levels correct?
My test strip yesterday was: nitrate - 0 - 20, nitrite - 1, PH - 6.0, kH - 180, gH - 120
My test strip today was: nitrate - 20(I believe), nitrite - 0 - 0.5(it's really hard to read), PH - 6.0, kH - 40, gH - 60 - I'm hoping it's better than what I had yesterday .. i'm going to get better testing supplies on Thursday and then start the process of recycling the tank and hopefully getting rid of the ich.

 

[fluttermoth]

The water is looking better today, but you want to try and get the nitrite down to zero if you can.

 

[This Old Spouse]

You mentioned a second time about getting test strips. These are terribly inaccurate and you won't be able to get a good reading, which is what you desperately need right now. You need a liquid or tablet test kit with test tubes. The most popular I think is the API Master test kit, which tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH.

Try not to mess with your pH. If you start adding stuff to your tank to regulate it you could throw all sorts of things out of whack. It's not something even experienced fishkeepers mess with.

For now just do as fluttermoth suggests, which is large water changes every day until your ammonia and nitrites read 0 for at least 24 hours. This will take several weeks, and unless you can find someone who can donate filter media to you, you'll need to be patient and wait it out.

Keep checking the forum for answers to every question you have in the future! It's an incredibly valuable resource, the best I've ever seen.

Plus, it will help you keep your sanity while all this is going on!

 

[HeatherS88]

The API master test kit was what I was going to try and find but as I mentioned I can't purchase until Thursday so until then I'm relying on the test strips to tell me what I'm dealing with. I will be switching this week though .. The fish are actually swimming around today .. looking abit less stressed. I have one of those sponge type things in the filter but was told it is not a good idea to clean it even though being filterless for the better half of the last month it's pretty gross. I just put a filter back in when I did my water change today. Thank you for all the helpful advise, it's alot less stressful when you have advise coming in directly about your situation! I thought I was going to pull my hair out there for awhile.

 

[karin]

Good Work Heather. Keep up the water changes. It is a lot of work now but soon the tank will settle down and then you can just enjoy (and do your weekly water changes ) Once you get the API kit you will know more precisely your stats and you can still use the strips when you lack the time and need to do a quickie test.

Do you have a tank vacume? This is a siphon hose with a big tube that lets you clean the gravel when you do your water changes. If you don't ask for one at your local pet store and they can show you how it works. Youtube might have a video too. This lets you get the stuff the filter does not pick up.

As long as the filter is drawing water, try not to clean it right now. Cleaning eventually will just mean rinsing your filter materials in old tank water. Never use fresh tap water as the chlorine will kill your good bacteria. And don't worry about replacing filter materials unless they are falling apart in your hands.

Good luck. I always like to say that being a water manager is first and a fish keeper is second in order of priorities.

 

[HeatherS88]

Yes I have a siphon, I did that really good. I'm going to do another 80% water change today and test and see where I'm at. Then tomorrow when I do the change and test, I'll hopefully have my new kit if I can find it, and I've heard of a lfs that's pretty accredited, I'm going to go see what his fish look like and consult him.

 

[HeatherS88]

Hey all, just giving an update. I went to a lfs today and the guy was super helpful, he tested my water and said it was perfect and that because my tank has been running for a month it was cycling fine. He gave me "quick cure" and told me to double the dose and not change the water for 2 weeks. So I've started that today. I also bought the API freshwater test kit today. I'm going to work on cycling a 10 gal. for a quarantine tank, I'm going to ask him if I can use some of his filter media, his tanks are very clean! Thank you for sending me in the right direction, I think I'm actually starting to understand it! Oh also the tank is a 28 gal. I measured one at the pet store today.

 

[karin]

ACK!!!!
Just for the record, I don't like the idea of double dosing the tank. Again, read my sig for a treatment approach that I have used successfully.
Second, make certain to test ammonia and nitrites with an "i" every day. I already don't like this guys recommendations, but you get to be the judge now that you have the test kit. If Nitrites or ammonia rise above zero, do a water change immediately and forget about diluting your medication. Again, more important to keep nitrites and ammonia at zero then to be messing with Quick Cure IMO.

Good luck and keep watching the posts here and in the new freshwater tank section. You will learn a lot by lurking.

 

[HeatherS88]

Yeah I thought it was strange too, but I've been watching my fish very closely, I tested the tank last night and both ammonia and nitrite tested 0 .. I did double dose but I'm watching closely .. if anything seems out of balance i'm going to change the water right away. But the fish seem to be doing well, I'm going to test daily for any inbalences in the water. I think he was under the impression that I wouldn't mind losing my fish if it were to happen but I love the fish I have. So for now I'm partially taking his advise and if anything seems out of place I'm going to do a water change. Thank you for the advise .. I will let you know how it goes. I'd also like to add that he only told me to dose it 1 time? it's not a double dose everyday .. but the spots fell off my fish as of last night, I'll just keep watching and I read your ich page about healthy fish not getting ich, I agree 100%, if they have healthy water and are living in a non stressful environment then they can build their immunity back up and fight it off easier. It makes perfect sense