Fish dying at rapid rate. HELP

[david.molloy2009]

I have a well established 210 ltr tank and until this week all has been well.
Parameters are
Ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 40.
Sand substrate, couple plants and a concofony of species (Danio, platy, Cory, brittle nosed pleco, amano shrimps 2 nertle snail and an assassin snail)

At the weekend I went and got some guppies to brighten up the tank as most current residents are black, silver or orange.

Since introducing the new fish I have had 5 deaths in 4 days.
A pearl danio went first, the following day a Guppy and my pleco, day after my oldest zebra danio (really gutted about this one) and a Guppy. Got in today to find another danio dead.

I have taken some pictures, if anyone can help, make suggestions as to what to do.
I think I have gained an infection with the new arrivals but don't know what or how to fix.

PLEASE PLEASE HELP!!!!

 

[Kyshiara]

The nitrite is VERY high, it should be zero. Do you mean nitrate? You might have got them confused.

Do a 75% or so water change, and maybe try some methelyne blue? But get advice from others on that. Do you have a quarantine tank?
Sorry to hear about all of your fish, I honestly get it, 30+ of mine died in two years It stinks.

 

[joeyr188]

I have a well established 210 ltr tank and until this week all has been well.
Parameters are
Ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 40.
Sand substrate, couple plants and a concofony of species (Danio, platy, Cory, brittle nosed pleco, amano shrimps 2 nertle snail and an assassin snail)

At the weekend I went and got some guppies to brighten up the tank as most current residents are black, silver or orange.

Since introducing the new fish I have had 5 deaths in 4 days.
A pearl danio went first, the following day a Guppy and my pleco, day after my oldest zebra danio (really gutted about this one) and a Guppy. Got in today to find another danio dead.

I have taken some pictures, if anyone can help, make suggestions as to what to do.
I think I have gained an infection with the new arrivals but don't know what or how to fix.

PLEASE PLEASE HELP!!!!

I think you probably introduce a disease it happened to me a couple month ago I now have a 5gal quarantine, everything else looks fine

 

[10 Tanks]

Hello David. Most tank problems are water related, for obvious reasons since that's what makes up most of the tank. I would suggest doing a slightly larger than normal water change. Then, slowly work up to the point you're changing half the tank water every week. This alone will maintain a steady water chemistry. Large, weekly water changes and a little food each day is all the fish require.

10 Tanks (Now 11)

 

[GaryE]

You have brought in a disease with the guppies, and now, there isn't much you can do but watch it play out. Sorry. You can't know if it's viral, or what kind of bacteria it is. Hopefully, it burns out without wiping all the fish out.

Get the corpses out as quickly as you can, go with daily 25-50% water changes and hang in. The parameters mean nothing here. You have an epidemic.

I have seen and heard of quite a few similar problems with unquarantined guppies.

 

[Kyshiara]

You have brought in a disease with the guppies, and now, there isn't much you can do but watch it play out. Sorry. You can't know if it's viral, or what kind of bacteria it is. Hopefully, it burns out without wiping all the fish out.

Get the corpses out as quickly as you can, go with daily 25-50% water changes and hang in. The parameters mean nothing here. You have an epidemic.

I have seen and heard of quite a few similar problems with unquarantined guppies.

Sadly I think what @GaryE said is correct. If you do have quarantine you could put half of them in there and maybe it might help keep it from spreading through all of them.

You could try a medication, just some Esha2000 is good. But maybe not for bacterial things.

 

[10 Tanks]

Hello again David. I should have suggested this before. But, along with a water change, do a good job of vacuuming the bottom material. There are pathogens that live in all tanks. Healthy fish are resistant to the vast majority of them. So, unless you're a fish biologist, there's no way to tell if you brought a sick fish into your tank or not. The simplest remedies are generally the best. Clean up the tank water and vacuum the bottom. Maintain a sound water change routine and feed the fish sparingly.

10 Tanks (now 11)

 

[david.molloy2009]

Thanks everyone.
I have done a massive water change (90%) and will do at least 25% daily for next week or so.
I have also been to the pet shop and got and dosed with Api Pimafix (fungal infection treatment) and Api Melafix (bacteria infection treatment).
Nothing more I can do for now.
Another death this afternoon and a couple fish looking sluggish and possibly on thier way out

 

[TwoTankAmin]

It is almost impossible to tell anything from pics of the fish out of the water. Symptoms become invisible that way. Pics of the live fish in the water would be helpful. Pics of the dead ones in the water before you removes them might also help if live pics are not avaolable.

When different species die in the same tank over a very short period of time my fist instinct is disease. Were the cause some sort of contaminant getting into the tank the fish would have died faster nover over days. But a disease has to spread and different ish will succumb at different rates.

My gut reaction would be that the problem might, and I want to emphasize might, be a virulent strain of Flavobacterium columnare aka columnaris. Such strains kill fast and before there are any symptoms. Post mortem diagnosis using a microscope is the only way to know if this is the case. This disease requires antibiotic treatment. However, there comes a time in incidents like you are having where the choices appear to be lose everything or take your best shot and hope. If you think you are at this stage, then I would say the best shot would be to treat for columnaris using antibiotics if they are available. However, there are other diseases that can kill rapidly and spread pretty fast. So I am not suggesting you do or not do anything. You will have to make this decision.

I am also a big fan of using quarantine tanks. If one decides to skip the use of one, then one also must be prepared to accept the worst potential outcome which is to lose all the fish in a tank because of it. Those of use who try to or do use Q tanks all the time do so for a number of reasons.
1. We have fish in our tanks which we have had for many years.
2. We have fish in our tanks that were very expensive to acquire and to replace.
3. We have skipped using a Q tank and suffered the bad results that can happen from doing this.
4. We are extremely paranoid about wiping out tanks if we skip Q.

 

[david.molloy2009]

It is almost impossible to tell anything from pics of the fish out of the water. Symptoms become invisible that way. Pics of the live fish in the water would be helpful. Pics of the dead ones in the water before you removes them might also help if live pics are not avaolable.

When different species die in the same tank over a very short period of time my fist instinct is disease. Were the cause some sort of contaminant getting into the tank the fish would have died faster nover over days. But a disease has to spread and different ish will succumb at different rates.

My gut reaction would be that the problem might, and I want to emphasize might, be a virulent strain of Flavobacterium columnare aka columnaris. Such strains kill fast and before there are any symptoms. Post mortem diagnosis using a microscope is the only way to know if this is the case. This disease requires antibiotic treatment. However, there comes a time in incidents like you are having where the choices appear to be lose everything or take your best shot and hope. If you think you are at this stage, then I would say the best shot would be to treat for columnaris using antibiotics if they are available. However, there are other diseases that can kill rapidly and spread pretty fast. So I am not suggesting you do or not do anything. You will have to make this decision.

I am also a big fan of using quarantine tanks. If one decides to skip the use of one, then one also must be prepared to accept the worst potential outcome which is to lose all the fish in a tank because of it. Those of use who try to or do use Q tanks all the time do so for a number of reasons.
1. We have fish in our tanks which we have had for many years.
2. We have fish in our tanks that were very expensive to acquire and to replace.
3. We have skipped using a Q tank and suffered the bad results that can happen from doing this.
4. We are extremely paranoid about wiping out tanks if we skip Q.

Any ideas? Ick?

 

[david.molloy2009]

What is the best set up of a q tank?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I am still leaning towards columnaris. It can for sure affect the gills and the second pic looks like the fish has his gill flap open in a not normal fashion. Are you seeing this more than just accidentally in the pic or more regularly? Do you see it in other fish alive of which have died?

The white patch could be columnaris. It can be seen anywhere on a fish and it is often seen at the base of the dorsal fin giving rise to the name saddleback disease. Columnaris is also often called cotton mouth disease where it can be mistaken for a fungus. And appears in the moth area and on the "lips."

Columnaris comes in many strains and some are more virulent than others. These can kill before any symptoms are visable. Other strains are milder and can even be fought off by the fish's immune system with minimal medication.

But I will say again that I am making some assumptions to reach my conclusion about what might be wrong. Diagnosing fish diseases and parasites etc. can be hard enough when they are right in front of one. Remotely it is even more difficult. So I cannot say, this is the problem and here is the fix.

If others can chime in that would be helpful.

 

[Kyshiara]

What is the best set up of a q tank?

Hmm probably empty with a simple filter and heater, and a fake plant or a decoration of some sort for them to hide in. I can't write much now but yeah.

 

[david.molloy2009]

Thanks.
At least one of the dead danios looked like he was foaming at the mouth so I am assuming cotton mouth.
Most of the remaining fish are hovering at top of tank now. Just going to have to ride it out and learn my lesson for next time .
Will Colunaris effect snails? One of my snails keeps falling off things and appears to be almost hanging out its shell.

Well hey ho. Lesson learnt

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

The meds you're trying might affect the snails and shrimp, if they contain copper, but I haven't looked up the medications you've bought.

I concur with @TwoTankAmin and @Byron , this isn't a water or overstocking problem, some nasty disease of some sort came in with those guppies. I'm so sorry that you're going through this. Many of us have made the mistake of skipping quarantine, I've been lucky on the times I did, aside from having to treat all the main tanks for worms due to skipping quarantine, but others like yourself pay a much heavier price, sadly.

Columnaris is what sprang to mind for me too, based on the tank and water being fine, how fast it spread and they began dropping, it's a strong suspect. It's hard to get proper antibiotic treatment for fish in the UK, it isn't available in the same way it is in the US. Tagging @Essjay to see whether she knows of any other antibiotic type treatments we can get in the UK.

You could try eSHa-2000, which I've used as well as their worming treatments and it worked in my case, but I also wasn't dealing with something as virulant and fast spreading as this, and I had time to order that online and could wait the few days it took to arrive. Might be worth ringing around the nearby fish stores and seeing if any stock it. The eSHa-2000 was an effective enough an antibiotic that it killed a chunk of my filter bacteria and caused a mini cycle, which makes me think it's worth a shot if you can get it, but also be aware that it may knock back (but not wipe out, they do rebuild their bacteria colonies pretty quickly once the medication is water changed out) your beneficial bacteria, so you can keep an eye on the water quality and water change as needed while the tank recovers.

From what I've tried, seen and read, API Melafix isn't really much good... I would personally favour eSHa-2000 over the Melafix, but that's gotta be a decision for you personally.

If you do get the eSHa or another med, remember to do some water changes to remove the previous meds before adding another, and if you're doing water changes during the course of treatment, to re-dose the new water in the appropriate amounts for the amount of water you're adding back to the tank.

Those fish do look very unwell and unhappy... I'm sorry mate, it's really rough. @Colin_T may be able to help more, he's good with diseases, and I'll share some of his usual advice which is to remove as many of the pathogens from the water/tank/filter as possible while this plays out. Less pathogens in the water/tank/filter means less pathogens the fish have to fight off, and the constant replacement of fresh clean water with low nitrAtes and zero ammonia and nitrites boosts their immune systems and gives them the best chance of fighting it off.

So do another tank clean ASAP, and wipe down the inside walls of the tank, thoroughly vacuum the substrate, wipe down decor in a bucket of removed tank water before replacing the decor, and clean the filter (only cleaning the filter media in a bucket of removed tank water, or declorinate a bucket of tapwater if you must use tap, never rinse filter media straight under the tap since the chlorine/chloromines will kill off the beneficial bacteria.
Then daily water changes. The larger the better, I'd aim for at least 50%, but do a 75% when you do the big wipe down and filter cleaning session.