:( Fish Died

[AquaNut]

I can see cichlidmaster's got this one under control, but plasmah, have you read about cycling a tank? You should do so. If you put all those fish (too many big fish for a 20 gallon IMO) in a week ago, I would bet my next aquarium that your elephant nose died from ammonia poisoning, and your fish are susceptible to ich for the same reason. I'd start doing some serious twice a day water changes if you want to save any of those fish. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Plasmah]

I will get a test kit very soon and let you know about that. Listen like I said I'm new here but I can tell you that the Elephant Nose died of starvation I never seen him eat the flake food so I really don't think its a chemical problem but i will check based on your input... Thanks much guys

 

[AquaNut]

Plasmah - I understand that you're new to this, and believe me, I understand and completely remember how frustrating it is when you set up your first tank and everything starts going disastrously wrong. Your elephant nose, being a sensitive fish, was unlikely to eat in poor water conditions. Please don't take the term 'poor water conditions' as an insult. If you didn't know about cycling a tank and the person/people who sold you your tank and fish didn't mention anything about it, you just wouldn't know better. I can tell you that I've never owned an ammonia test kit in my life, but I can say with fair confidence that your ammonia level must be pretty high. Plecos alone produce a tremendous amount of waste, and in an uncycled tank, waste = ammonia build up. In the beginners section of this forum, you'll find all the information you could ever need about cycling a freshwater fish tank.

 

[cichlidmaster]

Not to keep repeating myself here, but.................

You could be quite right!!! The fish could have died from starvation, but from an underlying cause of high ammonia/nitrites!!

Again.....elephantnose are very touchy fish and need pristine water conditions to thrive.

Perhaps you can take a sample of your water to the LFS and ask them to test it for you. These are the main things to have tested..........

1. Ammonia

2. Nitrite

3. nitrate

Some would say ph and a few other things, but since your tank is fairly new, these are the three most important right now.

Good Luck

CM

 

[Plasmah]

Ok np

I will take your good advice and by no means am I offended =)
I appreciate all your help and input. And hopefully with your help I won't go thru all this again.

I'll keep you posted on my tanks progress.

 

[gadazobe]

Hi Plasmah - if you didn't get PO'd with the Master - you will with me. Your ich most probably came from your own tank. Ich is nearly always present in a tank - it just takes too much stress an/or bad water conditions to start it off. Too many fish in a new tank that most probably hasn't cycled yet is enough stress and bad water conditions are enough for an outbreak of ich to start. It's a common mistake that most newbies make - instead of cycling a tank before adding fish. I know that a lot of lfs's get the blame for giving bad advice, but a lot of problems are caused by the aquarist by not researching enough beforehand.

Your elephant nose is not a beginners fish - they need a well established tank and very specific water conditions (I know - I have one) and your lfs should never have sold you one knowing that your are new at this hobby. True, they will not eat flakes only certain frozen and fresh foods, but I doubt if that is what killed him - fish can live a suprisingly long time with the smallest amount of food. They also need a "soft" substrate that they can rout in with their snouts. More than likely he couldn't cope with your water conditions.

Enough said about that - now let's sort the problem out.

First of all, you need to get your water tested for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Once your tank has cycled then you can think about getting new fish. Choose your fish to suit your water conditions - ie: do you have hard or soft water and choose your fish accordingly. It's much easier to keep fish that suit your water than to change your water to suit your fish. When you do get new fish, get them gradually, 1 or 2 every couple of weeks - not 10 all at once - otherwise your "good bacteria" will be unable to cope with the sudden influx of fish waste.

Sorry about the lecture, but I felt I had to have my say. Please don't think that I'm anti - we've all been were you are and it's only through asking that we learn and progress.

 

[Plasmah]

Nope you did not make me angry =)

Sounds good I will learn from my mistakes and move on. Thanks for the lecture =)

 

[Plasmah]

I do have a question:

Do you think the raising the temperature to 86f for a few weeks will kill the ICH? Or should I get medication?

 

[gadazobe]

The idea of raising the temp goes with salt and with a plec, you can't use salt so your best bet is to medicate. I read what fish you have, but what size is your tank?

 

[Alien Anna]

Nope.. Here is the worst part about the whole story.

I'm a new fish owner never owned an aquarium before and when I bought the Elephant Nose from my LFS I asked the guy what he eats, And he told me just reg flake food! Well you can guess what happend. The poor fish must have starved to death. I'm very pissed off! I will never buy fish from them again.

It don'T end there: The rest of the fish I bought from him are all riddled with ICH!
Now I have to clean my whole 20 gallon tank with plants and all!

I'm hoping this won't happen to me again.

Plasmah,
I'm sorry about your fish - you must be very fed up with the LFS.

However please don't clean your tank to get rid of ich - that won't help at all! All you'd do is risk killing the beneficial bacteria.

Is your tank properly cycled? What are your water parameters like? You said you're new to fish, if so, please read my article on New Tanks (follow the link in my sig). Also, go to the Beginners section and read the article on ich - it should clearly explain what to do. Ich is usually the result of some sort of stress and in new tanks this is often lack of cycling.

It is possible that your elephant nose in fact died of water poisoning rather than starvation - fish, being cold blooded, can last a heck of a long time without food. Weeks, in fact.

Any questions once you're clear on the cycling process, please post them.

 

[Alien Anna]

Well the guy first lied to me about the Elephant Fish and what it eats. And second the fish I purchased from him had ICH. So I guess thats a good reason no?

I'm new to this hobby I trusted the guy and what he was telling me.

It is possible he didn't actually realise the elephant nose wouldn't eat flake - some elephant noses will eat flake, some won't.

Also, are you sure the fish you bought actually had ich, or contracted it when you added them to an un-cycled tank?

See, sometimes situations aren't quite as they appear at first sight

 

[Inchworm]

Isn't 86 degrees a bit too warm? Eighty degrees is usually warm enough to treat ick especially if you medicate.

I seldom test chemicals (except if I have a problem that can't be explained any other way) so I'm no expert in the science area, but doesn't an overly high temperature result in less oxygen in the water? My concern is that if you have a chemical related problem this could only compound it.

Perhaps someone could expand on this thought.

Ick is a parasitic disease that is often brought on by the fish catching a chill. This often happens to fish during shipping which results in the many fish you see in shops having it. Since it takes a few days to show, it is possible that the fish you bought were coming down with it although you could not yet tell.

 

[Plasmah]

Thanks Anna

Well my tanks a 20 gallon long and its been running for 3 weeks the first two weeks there was no fish I added all 7 fish the past week. All the fish where of small size not very big at all. I guess I just did not allow for a complete cycle from what everyone is saying. I will test the water soon and give you the results.

Thanks for all your help...

 

[Plasmah]

Hi Inchworm

Yea I hear what your saying too but I'm affraid to use any medication at this stage as I allready screwed everything up =)

The 86f temperature seems ok so far I'v had it that way for about 16 hours or more the fish are actually more active and I should have enough agitation on the surface of the water for oxygen, My P330 makes pretty good surface movement + I have an airstone making lots of bubbles to move the surface as well.

I do notice that the Silver Dollar that has the ICH seems to have less spots on him since I up the temperature.

Dunno if this is working yet but I'd rather try this than add chemicals as they are equally bad for the fish anyways.

 

[William]

Plasmah, the only point in raising the temperature of the tank is so that the ich's life cycle is speeded up. You can not kill the ICH by simply raising the temperature, even if you raised the temperature continiously it would be your fish which died first before the ICH.

You need to get medication in your tank fast, with a raised temperature the ICH will be replicating fast. The reason for speeding up the life cycle is that ICH can only be killed when it is free swimming and so a raised temperature means faster life cycle and so less time needed on medication to treat it all (usually less than a week).

Buy some ICH medication and also buy Ammonia and NitrIte test kits. NitrAte is also a useful testkit especially if you are considering keeping another elephant nose.

Welcome to the forum...