First timer with sick fish, help!

[CV26]

Firstly, here are my tank stats...
- 6 Guppies (5f 1m)
- 6 Neon Tetras
- 4 Sterbai Cory

Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 10-20, PH 7.6. 100l tank.

The problem...
Guppies added to tank just over a week ago...no QT period (newbie here learning by mistakes) and they seemed fine in the shop. Shop had good reviews online too.

Guppy 1 (f) started hanging at the top of the tank a few days ago and flashed a few times off a nearby plant. She didn't seem bother by food either.

Guppy 2 (m) also flashed a couple of times but was otherwise normal.

No external signs like white spot as far as I can see.

Flashing stopped for a day but then came back on Guppy 1, and no improvement on swimming behaviour or eating.

I decided after a lot of Googling that they most likely had internal parasites.

I contacted the LFS I got them from and they recommended Protozin. I couldn't get there though and went to a nearer LFS who gave me NT Labs Anti Parasite.

I dosed the tank on Monday evening. It's a one time dose.

Guppy 1 picked up pretty quickly at first. She swam around a lot more and even came for dinner at feeding time.

All of the guppies have hung around at the surface a little since putting in the meds but also seemed happy to mooch back off to deeper waters and they ate dinner as normal.

Throughout Tuesday though, Guppy 3 started flashing off the spray bar and hanging at the top a lot. I also spotted that she has a single tear in her tail...no other physical signs though.

This morning I found her against the filter grill with her fins to her body. She did move though so not gone yet! When I check again she had her fins out as normal and was mid tank.

I've set up my a spare tank just in case but am pondering what to do...

- Treat QT too and move guppy 3 into it alone.
- Move all guppies into QT and treat them in there, leaving the main tank meds to run their course for the tetras and Cory's just in case.
- Leave everyone where they are and ride it out.

My neons and Cory's seem fine, no odd behaviour from them as far as this newbie can tell.

Hindsight...should have used the spare tank to QT the guppies. Have since read they are some of the worst fish for getting poorly.

Any tips to help me go forward though?

 

[NickAu]

Hi

Tank size?
Is the tank cycled?
Has it got a heater?
What is the water temp?
How long has the tank been set up?
What water conditioner are you using?

 

[CV26]

100l

Cycled - fishless method.

Almost 4 weeks running with fish (added gradually during that time) - water checks every couple of days, have never differed from those in OP. We always checked before adding new fish.

Heater at 25 degrees Celsius

Using a Fluval conditioner.

 

[Colin_T]

Can you post a picture of the sick fish and if they swim funny, do a short 20 second video of them swimming weird. If you post a picture of the neons and cories we can check them for signs of disease too.

What are the ingredients in the medication?

-----------------------
To work out the volume of water in the tank:
measure length x width x height in cm.
divide by 1000.
= volume in litres.

When you measure the height, measure from the top of the substrate to the top of the water level.

There is a calculator/ converter in the "How To Tips" at the top of this page that will let you convert litres to gallons if you need it.

Remove carbon from the filter before treating or it will absorb the medication and stop it working.

Wipe the inside of the glass down, do a 75% water change and complete gravel clean. And clean the filter before treating.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration when using medications because they reduce the dissolved oxygen in the water.

-----------------------
If the problem is a protozoan infection (rubbing on objects is a common symptom of this), you need to treat the main tank and the quarantine tank for at least 7 days. Most protozoans have several stages to their lifecycle and can only be killed in one of those stages. Their lifecycle can take a week at 24C so you need to treat for that long to make sure you do the job completely.

Measure the volume of water in the tank using the above formula. Even tho tanks are sold as x litres, they don't normally hold that much water when you have gravel and ornaments in.

If you overdose with the medication you could kill the fish.

 

[CV26]

Thanks

Idosed according to the volume taking into account the rocks, gravel, filter media etc. So I'm reasonably ok that I haven't over dosed.

Annoyingly everyone is swimming around just fine right now!

Tank lights are also off at the moment so it'd be hard to get pictures / video. Will try later.

When Guppy 3 was floating at the top last night there was just very minimal fin movement to keep her in place. That was the same with Guppy 1 the other day although she would do little circuits above her chosen spot every now and then.

This is the medication...
https://www.ntlabs.co.uk/browse-products/indoor/aquariums/anti-parasite/

QT heater doesn't seem to be working properly so can't really use it anyway! Temp shows 22 on thermometer when I asked for 25. It was off suggesting it had reached what it thought was the right temp.

 

[Colin_T]

I checked their website previously but it doesn't have the ingredients on it, can you check the bottle and packaging for the ingredients?

The guppy that was sitting up by the filter might have been sleeping/ resting.

If the heater is adjustable, raise the temperature a couple of degrees. Protozoan infections take longer to go through their lifecycle at cooler temperatures. If the heater is not adjustable, try insulating the back & sides of the tank with polystyrene foam (like what you use under the bottom of the tank) and get a coverglass on the top of the tank, then see if the temperature goes up. If it doesn't then you might need a higher wattage heater.

 

[CV26]

It might well have been resting as she seemed fine when I left the house. Hoping that the odd behaviour last night was maybe a bit of stress to having the meds added and now they're settling again. Fingers crossed.


Not at home right now but I think the medication only had 2 ingredients. Copper and formaldehyde. You can only just about see it on the picture on their website.

Main tank heater is working well and is adjustable.

With the Corys and tetras in there too, what temp should I aim for?

 

[CV26]

I swear I am paranoid or going insane!

All fish swimming around / behaving normally.

Have checked appearances and Guppy 3 no longer seems to have the rip in her tail either.

Will keep an eye on them and ride it out for now I guess!

 

[Colin_T]

With the Corys and tetras in there too, what temp should I aim for?

24-26C is fine for most tropical fish.

 

[NickAu]

Aquarium Anti-Parasite, Previously known as Anti-Velvet & Slime

CAUTION: This product contains copper and will kill water snails and invertebrates. You wont be able to keep snails and other inverts in that tank for a long time.

Active Ingredients:

Copper Sulphate

Citric Acid

Formaldehyde

 

[CV26]

Sadly, this morning I had to euthanase Guppy 1

On Thursday night she was sitting in the bottom back corner of the tank. It was Cory corner so they were jumping all over and around her as if she wasn't there and she didn't even try to move.

By Friday evening she had wedged herself between some leaves on one of the plants, and she looked practically dead. Her tail was also looking tattered - although it's hard to say if that was illness or the accidental beating from the Corys.

I moved her to a QT. She had a mooch round but then this morning she was in a right state. She had a white poo...couldn't say stringy but it had clumpy bits a bit like this... -0-0-

She was also bent.




I couldn't leave her like that so used clove oil.

I'm so upset, it's the first one we've lost and I'm terrified that the rest of the guppies will go the same way.

So far they seem ok...no flashing for a few days now although Guppy 2 did a white/clear poo with black bits yesterday. Guppy 3 seems fine at the moment. But Guppy 4 (f) is sitting quietly at the top of the tank at the moment whilst the rest swim round as normal.

The tetras and Cory's seem fine too...no signs of anything at all.

There were still no external signs like white spots or fluff.

Any help with working out what I'm dealing with?

 

[CV26]

QT parameters were all fine when I put her in and again this morning.

 

[Colin_T]

The flared gills and skinny body is typical of gill flukes and intestinal worms (tapeworm/ thread or round worms).
You use Praziquantel to treat tapeworm and gill flukes, and Levamisole to treat thread/ round worms. However, you don't want to add either of these medications while you are using the velvet medication. The velvet medication has copper sulphate and that should kill any gill flukes.

The last picture 88947 the fish appears to have a weird coloured patch on the body running from the head to just behind the dorsal fin. This is either bacterial or protozoan. If the fish is rubbing on objects it is probably protozoan.

---------------------
If the guppies are in a separate tank you can add salt to their tank. You add 2 heaped tablespoons of rock salt (aka aquarium salt), sea salt or swimming pool salt per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you add another 2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres so there is 4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres.
Keep the salt level s like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks.

The salt treats bacteria, fungus and protozoan infections and is safe to use on livebearers, but you don't want to use this dose rate on tetras or cories.

You can add the lower dose rate of salt (2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) while using the copper sulphate (velvet medication).

 

[CV26]

Thank you. So it sounds like a double whammy...flukes and intestinal. That does make sense. I'm in the UK though so will have to see what meds are available.

The flashing stopped a couple of days after the velvet treatment was added. I haven't spotted the other fish flashing very much...maybe Guppy 1 once on Wednesday but nothing Thurs / Fri.

The guppies are in the main tank with the tetras and Cory's so no salt.

The velvet treatment will be complete on Monday so that's the earliest I can change anything.

Do you recommend moving the guppies? (The LFS said not to but im really worried theyll have the same thing as Guppy 1 but might just be a bit further behind or more resilient)

If they are in the QT I'd have to do water changes regularly so would that impact treatment?

Can the tetras and Cory's catch what the guppies have?

 

[Colin_T]

If you have already treated the main tank then leave them all in it. If it is a protozoan infection then all the fish will be infected, so just treat the main tank with all the fish in it.

Just finish the treatment program, wait a few days then see how they do. If they are ok then do a 75% water change each day for a week before treating them for worms.

Worm treatments should be done once a week for 3 weeks. You can do a 75% water change 24-48 hours after treating the fish. You need to treat for a few weeks because the worm eggs take time to hatch and by treating each week you kill the adults and then any new worms that hatch out after.