First tank, now planted

[White Crown]

Years ago I bought a betta for my girls, put it in a .5 gallon tank bought right off the shelf beside the fish. I followed the "care guide" and didn't know I needed any further info until I started having water quality issues even with water changes. I was bombarded with how cruel it was to keep a betta in an unfiltered tank, so I bought one. Then it was how cruel it was to have one in less than 5 gallons.

Well I did not have anywhere to put a five gallon tank so I stopped asking questions and posting pictures because it was embarrassing to have people think I'm pretty much doing the same thing as duct taping a cat. That fish died when I started setting my thermostat lower in the winter.

If I would have received suggestions on what was better for my fish rather than constantly being flat out told I was doing it wrong, I might have stuck around to learn about temperature sensitivity or tank cycling. Yes I didn't even know about cycling until now, luckily Violet lived through it but not very long.

I had that crappy care guide right? If the people that actually know what they are doing (you guys) meet newcomers with a swift NO, you CAN'T put that fish in that tank, a lot of people are going to do it anyway, like I did, because it was already in there and I didn't think I had a choice. Wouldn't it be better for a member of this forum to keep that betta in a 2.5g tank and continue to become more knowledgeable, than for them to return it to the store who sells it to someone with a half gallon tub and a crappy care guide? NO, you NEED to have 5 gallons!!! Now go kill your fish. Lol it doesn't make sense to me, but like I said, parrot people are the same.

Thank you again Rocky, and my apologies for derailing my own thread multiple times

 

[Rocky998]

Thank you again Rocky, and my apologies for derailing my own thread multiple times

No problem! And its your thread, ask as many qyestions as you need to!

 

[Duckquarium]

Thats just mass housing them... Its not right to keep them like that but thats how they get from place to place and hopefully end up with someone who knows what their doing. 2.5g is way too small for a betta fish being held long term... The mass fish dealers dont care about individual fish and they may have many deaths...

No problem and also thank you for the compliment.
I completely understand what you're saying. After a while of being here and "getting to know" members you'll see that most are very kind and just trying to help. It is very good that you recognize the issue as a lot of people dont know until someone tells them whats wrong. So its very good that you know what you need to do for your animals.

Yeah like I said, farming.
Don’t tell people to toss the 2.5g tell them to get more and get a pair of 5’s to keep their permanent livestock

 

[Rocky998]

Yeah like I said, farming.
Don’t tell people to toss the 2.5g tell them to get more and get a pair of 5’s to keep their permanent livestock

No. Five galloms is the minimum sized tank for long term housing of a betta with a 10 gallon being ideal. A 2.5 gallon is way too small. Yes its better than a bowl but it still shouldnt be done. A fish is still an animal and if you are caring for that animal you must provide it with the best care you possibly can and that doesnt mean to get a 200 gallon tank and waste a ton of money, it just means that if you get an animal, then expect to provide it what it needs to survive. Not everything will be perfect if course but at least get the correct sized tank, otherwise just keep snails and shrimps for the 2.5g.

 

[White Crown]

But WHY is the exact number 5 gallons minimum. Not just because that's what everyone on the forums says or has always said.

What is the difference between a betta in 4 gallons and a betta in 5. Are there animal behavior PhD written articles on this. Where are the studies and support of the concept? I'm open to it but not "because thats what everybody says" or how about "because they always have minimum 5 gallon puddles in the wild" and reference the research to back it up.

 

[White Crown]

And people please stop quoting random articles because that can be done both ways, watch this:

Sure you CAN keep a pea puffer in only one gallon! In fact its recommended here: https://fishtankauthority.com/best-fish-for-a-1-gallon-tank/

See, just because some fish authority website posted it it must be gospel right? I think not. I cant imagine a trying to keep up with a carnivorous fish in my 1 gallon tank. Id have to do at least 50%water changes daily and then the water parameters would probably fluctuate.

 

[Rocky998]

And people please stop quoting random articles because that can be done both ways, watch this:

Sure you CAN keep a pea puffer in only one gallon! In fact its recommended here: https://fishtankauthority.com/best-fish-for-a-1-gallon-tank/

See, just because some fish authority website posted it it must be gospel right? I think not. I cant imagine a trying to keep up with a carnivorous fish in my 1 gallon tank. Id have to do at least 50%water changes daily and then the water parameters would probably fluctuate.

Some sites cant be trusted... You cant believe everything you see. I know people who have kept fish in bowls but its inhumane.... You dont keep a dog in a kennel for its whole life... Every living thing needs room to feel comfortable. If you are going to have an animal, then keep it in the best place you can... And if you only have room for a bowl, then Im sorry but fish arent the best option for that person then.

 

[Duckquarium]

No. Five galloms is the minimum sized tank for long term housing of a betta with a 10 gallon being ideal. A 2.5 gallon is way too small. Yes its better than a bowl but it still shouldnt be done. A fish is still an animal and if you are caring for that animal you must provide it with the best care you possibly can and that doesnt mean to get a 200 gallon tank and waste a ton of money, it just means that if you get an animal, then expect to provide it what it needs to survive. Not everything will be perfect if course but at least get the correct sized tank, otherwise just keep snails and shrimps for the 2.5g.

Again the point of the 2.5 in the case of the betta is temporarily housing the babies until they’re big enough to be sold.
Meaning farming, nothing bad about that.
Farming is where you try to turn a profit, cost is involved, profit margins etc.
This is a full derailment at this point though, not cool

 

[Rocky998]

But WHY is the exact number 5 gallons minimum. Not just because that's what everyone on the forums says or has always said.

What is the difference between a betta in 4 gallons and a betta in 5. Are there animal behavior PhD written articles on this. Where are the studies and support of the concept? I'm open to it but not "because thats what everybody says" or how about "because they always have minimum 5 gallon puddles in the wild" and reference the research to back it up.

Obviously 4g is ok... Not perfect... but itll work... You dont keep an arowana in a 10g so dont keep a betta in a small container, its not right. Its not an exact number either, its a recommendation. You can keep one in a 6,7,8,9,10,15,20g or higher... I do like that you question things but also people on these forums have been keeping fish wayyyyy longer than you or me and have proven it. I would advise that you dont think of fish as an object of decor but an animal that deserves the same amount of care as any animal like a dog or cat. When you buy them they depend on you to provide a happy life

 

[Rocky998]

Again the point of the 2.5 in the case of the betta is temporarily housing the babies until they’re big enough to be sold.
Meaning farming, nothing bad about that.
Farming is where you try to turn a profit, cost is involved, profit margins etc.
This is a full derailment at this point though, not coolView attachment 156947

Housing fry in a 2.5 is fine. I thought you meant adults so I do apologize

 

[White Crown]

What did I say that would lead you to insinuate that I think of fish as objects? Because I want to know why people say what they say about them? I just read some scientific journals published by mdpi on tank size and cortisol levels in zebra danios. Turns out the increase stress is only measured in the immediate timeframe around transferring the fish. Their activity is actually increased by smaller spaces, however their measured stamina decreases. Sounds like the reason to put these "objects" in a bigger tank is to maintain their stamina. I bet nobody on this site knows that though. I'm not sure how important a fishs stamina in captivity is but we could guess and tell people what not to do and discourage them or... We could find out the real effects! Who cares though they are just objects right?

 

[Duckquarium]

Housing fry in a 2.5 is fine. I thought you meant adults so I do apologize

I do have an adult in a 2.5 planted at the moment but it’s only temporary while I’m waiting for my shelving to come in to set up his 10g on.
Mostly just fry, but for meds or like as a temporary holding place it’s a good thing to have.
Some people use smaller tanks to do live food cultures too, that’s fairly useful as well.
Im not defending fish abusers just the fact that there can be lots of circumstantial uses for smaller aquariums, so long as you use your head.
They say you can’t grow anything in sand, but that’s usually how you root a cutting from a tree.
You stick it in some sand with rooting hormone and it shoots, but too long in the sand and the cutting will eventually die.
Similar concept, kind of..

 

[Rocky998]

I do have an adult in a 2.5 planted at the moment but it’s only temporary while I’m waiting for my shelving to come in to set up his 10g on.
Mostly just fry, but for meds or like as a temporary holding place it’s a good thing to have.
Some people use smaller tanks to do live food cultures too, that’s fairly useful as well.
Im not defending fish abusers just the fact that there can be lots of circumstantial uses for smaller aquariums, so long as you use your head.
They say you can’t grow anything in sand, but that’s usually how you root a cutting from a tree.
You stick it in some sand with rooting hormone and it shoots, but too long in the sand and the cutting will eventually die.
Similar concept, kind of..

Its fine for it to be temporary

 

[Duckquarium]

What did I say that would lead you to insinuate that I think of fish as objects? Because I want to know why people say what they say about them? I just read some scientific journals published by mdpi on tank size and cortisol levels in zebra danios. Turns out the increase stress is only measured in the immediate timeframe around transferring the fish. Their activity is actually increased by smaller spaces, however their measured stamina decreases. Sounds like the reason to put these "objects" in a bigger tank is to maintain their stamina. I bet nobody on this site knows that though. I'm not sure how important a fishs stamina in captivity is but we could guess and tell people what not to do and discourage them or... We could find out the real effects! Who cares though they are just objects right?

Well clearly plenty of people here do know what happens though, and people have been keeping fish and passing down the hobby to their kids for a long time.
The Japanese were breeding koi in 1840 for example.
There’s definitely a bit of rapid assumption though.