first saltwater tank setup

[saltygirl21]

Hey everyone!
Okay, I want to set up a 30 gallon tank. It'll be my first salt water tank, and I want to start with just fish and live rock, but maybe later add an anenome and some coral. I haven't decided on what type of filtration or lighting I want to use, but what I'm really lost on is stocking. I've read so many different things on how many inches of fish per gallon, and which ish will fit in a 30 gallon tank that I'm extremely confused. The fish I'm considering right now are:

2 percula clowns
purple firefish
royal gramma
3 stripe damsel
mandarin

I realize I can't have all of these fish, and that if I did get a mandarin it wouldn't be until a year or so after the tank is set up, but besides that, any good combination suggestions would be appreciated. Also, how many gallons would a tank to need to be to house all of these fish plus and minus a yellow tang.

Then for lighting, I think I'm going to start with florescent lights, and if I decide to upgrade to a reef, I'll buy metal halide lights. How many watts of florescent lighting do you think that I need, and do I need a canopy, or can I wait until I buy the more expensive lights to purchase one?

Then finally for the filtration, I think I want to include a protien skimmer(if you think I need one for a 30 gallon), a HOB filter for the big pieces of stuff, and 1 or 2 powerheads. I would really appreciate advice on what brands of equipment you think work well. I've seen so many that I'm not sure which to pick!

Thanks so much and sorry I've got so many questions

 

[Navarre]

Hi and welcome to the world of Marines B)

Your stocking list seems well thought out and as you already have mentioned, the mandarin will need to wait a considerable amount of time before pod levels rise high enough to sustainit.

I would keep clear of damsels as they are very aggressive and territorial fish. They will think nothing of taking on fish far larger than themselves to protect their territory so a tank of this size might prove too small for them to feel comfortable with other fish around them.

Perhaps instead of the damsels you couold consider a Dwarf Angel? A Cherub Angel or Fireball angel look stunning and are well suited for a tank of this size.

As for a Yellow Tang (or any tang for that matter) Im afraid the tank is far too small to keep one. A minimum of 100 gallons is considered to neeed for tangs like Yellows and Purple Tangs. 150 gallons or more for larger tangs like the Naso's ect.

Lighting: If you are not keeping corals yet then it really doesnt matter as the fish wont mind what lighting is over their heads. Lighting can be enclosed in ahood etc for sucha tank and only when corals are wanted should thelighting be a more important issue.

Filtration: Definately a skimmer should be used. A mechanical filter like a cannister or other similar would be ideal for removing the larger bits of detrius in the water columb.
A couple of powerhead is good but make sure you have high circulation in the tank as marines benefit from strong movement. In a 30 gallon tank you need a minimum of 300 gallons per hour water movement and if possible evenhigher.. maybe even 600 gallons per hour.

Lastly.. I noticed you havent mentioned anything about liverock etc. This should form your main filtration purposes and you will need at least 30lbs for a 30 gallon tank.

Hope this helps.

 

[chkltcow]

One thing I'll add that I'm pretty sure Navarre will agree with...... leave the anemones in the ocean. Your clown fish doesn't need an anemone to host in, and they can wreak a lot of havoc on a small SW tank with their tentacles and their habits of moving around. Search for "sarcophyton" and find the pic Navarre posted of his clown hosting in a finger leather coral.

 

[Navarre]

I do agree with you 100% chkltcow, i just didnt want to bring it up right away as i assumed it would be a later purchase rather than oneof the first purchases.

However, i can give some facts on anemones in the wild and captivity.

Scientific research cannot find any aging process with anemones. I.E. the do not grow old and therefore have the potential of being "immortal" (strong word i know). We know for definate that anemones are known to have lived for over 300 or 400 years. its even belived that some anemones in th wild could be as old as 2000 years! Just think! a living creature that is still with us from when Christ walk the earth! What is belived to happen is that they grow large then divide etc so its hard to tell who exactly is the original colony as has been mentioned there simply is no aging process. Disease and predation of course does take its toll on these creatures so their potenial immortality rests on those 2 factors.

Now comes the captive part...

For every 1000 anemones collected and sold, 1 will make it to the shop for sale For every 100 anemones that the shop sells, 1 will make it to 1 year old. The odds for anemones living longer than a year are even less of course. and this is frightening .

Now i know that many people argue that they have successfully kept an anemone in their tanks for 5 years... 10 years.. maybe even 15 years! but how can this be considered successful when 15 years to an anemone is a blink of an eye.
If you had a puppy and it lived for a week then died, can you consider this successful? Of course not and this is the same as saying a 15year old anemone has done well in a tank.

Ok so if this is not enough to turn anyone off keeping them lets consider the life within the tank... They need strong lights and excellant water perameters. if nonw of these are present then the anemone will wander off in search of better conditions. Of corse, it doesnt know its in a tank so it wil continue to wander over the tank looking for good conditions. Whilst its doing this it will be stinging each and every coral it comes into contact with and doing all sorts of damage to them as it passes by.
And if this is not enough, anemones also catch fish! (its what they do ) ) I lost a copperband butterfly and a Collair butterfly to my atlantic anemone before i returned it to the shop. BOth these fish were healthy and i was gutted to lose them this way but who can blame the anemone, its just doing what it does.

If an anemone dies or gets stressed they can pollute the tank killing everything in it (including itself).

IMO they are trouble and not worth the effort. People who want a clown/anemone symbiosis often dont realise that clowns will host in anything! (I have seen them host in caulerpa and even bits of string!) using a leather mushroom (Sarcophyton) is far easier as its not as demanding and of course it doesnt eat fish!


Now dont get me wrong, im not saying that anemones should not be kept at all.. There are now captive bred ones and these are slowly proving better conditioned to living in captive tanks. Perhaps in the years to come there will be no need to remove these creatures fro mthe wild as a captive breeding program will be far more viable.

Lastly... I actually do have an Anemone ) In my defence however, it came out of some liverock i purchased and wasnt something i got from the shop. Its grown from a tiny polyp (that i thought was majano at first) into a small bubble tip anemone Its not moved from the same location in the rock since i dicovered it.. not even during the changing of tanks so i guess its happy where it is! This anemone sits less than 6 inches away from where my clowns hang out and yet they have not once givenit the slightest interest as their home. So those who feel that clowns and anemones are a "must have" pairing, think again because if the clowns dont want to host in it then they simply wont.

Im ont having a dig at you Salygirl, after all, you only mentioned the anemones as part of your wish list and not as part of an impulse purchase. This is basically for everyone else out there that wnt these intrigung creatures and dont realise the impact they are making on the wild. IF people refused to buyt anemones then shops would stop importing them. Shops import then because they are money spinners. )

Hop this helps. )

 

[saltygirl21]

Thank you guys so much for your advice. I was going to buy 50 pounds of live rock, sorry I forgot to write it ) . As for my final stocking list, I'm going to start with a pair of clowns, and then wait to see what else my LFS gets in stock later on. When I was checking out your suggestions, I also saw coral beauties. The website said that you can keep them in a 30 gallon as well. Is it true? After all it's probably not a good idea to trust people who are trying to sell you stuff .

But besides that I think I'm going to defenitely get one of those leather mushrooms that I saw in your other post Navarre. They look exactly like the anenomes without alot of the trouble and destruction!! I also think I might get metal halide lights to start with, as I think I'm going to get the leather mushroom and maybe another coral or 2, and there's no point in wasting the money for florescent lights if I'm going to upgrade anyway.
Also, the tank I'm going to use used to house my brothers frog and guppies, so if you have any suggestions as to how to clean it out besides soap, water and a sponge let me know.

Thanks again for all the advice!!!

 

[chkltcow]

I used Oxyclean. It's an oxidizer that won't stick around... basically becomes peroxide when you add water to it. My 20g marine tank was used.... and it formerly held guppies. There were a few nasty spots on it, and Oxyclean cleaned it right up. Essentially.... put a few inches of water in.... add the Oxyclean, stir it up, then use a sponge to wipe down any areas that need to be. After that, fill it the rest of the way up and let it sit overnight or so. Empty it out, rinse it a few times, and dry it out with a towel. Let it sit a few days and air dry too, just to be safe.

 

[Ed4567]

If you want to keep invertebrates I'd check that the tank has never been treated with a copper containing medication as supposidly it can leach out of the silicon; I have no idea how true this is but since the cost of the tank is not really that high in comparison to other things it might not be worth risking.

Lighting wise, IMO a 150 watt halide light would look very nice on that tank, although with the corals you are looking at you could easily get away with less.

I'm not sure how the coral beauty would react to being in a 30 gallon tank, although from seeing other dwarf angels in other peoples tanks it might be a little cramped when fully grown, although if you were careful with your aquascape it could be ok (i.e. plenty of swimming room, rock formations that it can swim in and out of rather than just one big wall etc.).

Oh and one more thing, you probably save quite a bit of money if you dont mind buying equipment second hand.
Ed

 

[impur]

If you are worried about copper being used previously in the tank, here is a way to clean it from Dr. Ron over at RC

"When I have deconned tanks I have used muriatic available from most hardware stores. Dilute it no more than about 10 to 1. It must be strong.

Rinse well between the acid wash and the bleach one.

Mixing the acid and the bleach liberates free chlorine gas and inhaling some of this can ruin your whole day (and the rest of your - shortened - life). "



I second buying second hand equipment, saves a lot of $!! And also look to join a local reefkeeping club.

 

[saltygirl21]

Thanks, I'll try cleaning out the tank this weekend. I asked my dad about all the stuff you reccomended and he and I went out and bought it.

Then for fish, I decided to go with a pair of clowns and an orchid dottyback, then maybe a year or so after the tanks been going I'll add a mandarin.

I think I'm going to start with 60 watts of florescent lighting, then when I decide to start getting corals, I'll get 150 watts of metal halide lights. The lights are so expensive! But what would you think of these together:
Bulbs

Hood kit

They say that you can have 150 or 175 watt bulbs, but in the lighting section they appear to only offer 175 watt bulbs. Then can you help to explain to me what the ballast, reflector, and actinic lights are. I'm so confused!

Thank you so much!! I'd be lost without you guys

 

[saltygirl21]

This is another option that would be much cheaper, but tell me if I'm missing anything. It seems like I'm missing a mount or hood of some kind. Then with these lights would I need a chiller of a fan of some kind?

Socket Pair with bracket

Ballast

Bulbs

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks!

 

[impur]

Either of those lighting setups would work. Except the first one you supplied is a SE socket and a DE bulb. But good thinking on the MH, definately the way to go.

I just ordered my lights from hellolights.com too. I got the 250w ARO electronic ballast and a reflector with socket. Total cost 145 with shipping and i get a free digital thermometer

As for the dottyback, be sure to get a tank bred one. These guys can be hit or miss. Some of them are real aggressive. Sure are a beautiful fish though!!

The actinics lights are usually flourescent, and they give off a blue light. Their spectrum is 420nm i believe, letting it penetrate deeper into the tank than other spectrums. In my case i'm going to go with a 20k bulb, this way i do not need actinic supplementation. If you decide to get actinic with the MH, go with a 10k bulb. If you buy an electronic ballast, you can run any MH bulb with the same wattage as the ballast. The only thing to decide after that is double ended(DE) or single ended(SE). You will need to watch the temp and decide whether or not a fan will be needed. You could go with a retro kit which is installed in a wooden hood, or some sort of pendant that simply hangs over the tank from the ceiling or a shelf.

Hope i answered your questions!!!

 

[saltygirl21]

When you say 150 watts, do you mean 150 watt bulbs, or 150 watts total (as in 2 75 watt bulbs). I realize this is probably a stupid question, but when I was looking at bulbs I started to wonder )

 

[impur]

one 150w bulb.

 

[Fishy411]

u cannot keep a mandarin in a 30 no matter how long u wait. U need at least 100 pounds of live rock to even come close to feeding it. it feeds on Pods. U may build up a good pod population but it wonjt stay that way without tons of Lr. Sry but thisa one is best left alone.

most small angels just become extremely lazy when put in a small tank. Pygmy angels are good and they would fit


Clowns will host in most corals but make sure that they are not harming the corals because they are not as symbiotic.




Navarre- try putting a picture of an anemone and clown hosting on the outside of your tank and the clowns may host it. This really actually works.

 

[leon]

Navarre- try putting a picture of an anemone and clown hosting on the outside of your tank and the clowns may host it. This really actually works.

really??