First Planted Tank hand holding required...!

[nodding_dino]

Hey all,

I've browsed the boards for a while, but figured it was time for me to jump in with both feet and say hello...!

I used to keep some large cichlids in an aquarium you could bath in, but after a bit of a break, I have (at last) come back into the hobby and am currently in the process of building my first ever tropical community tank.

The tank is in my daughters bedroom (I needed an excuse ) and I would love to plant it up for it look nice and natural. The cichlid tank never had any plants, so this is all new territory to me!

I have spent some time looking through lots of the threads on here and although much of it is really helpful, I am looking for someone/people to mentor me through my first planted tank.

I have a Juwel Rio 125 and at the moment it is home to a few little blue platies who are doing a fine job of running the filters in for me. The tank has the stock lights in the hood, albeit with the addition of a reflector on each, and I have a fine gravel substrate.

I purchased a handful of plants (on impulse - forgive me...) from my LFS and did nothing more than poke them into place.

From what I have read and understood so far, there are three main things I need to get organised - lighting, CO2 and feed. Some of the planted tanks in the galleries here are an absolute inspiration, and although I'm sure I won't be able to reach such giddy heights of planted tankdom...I would like to think that I can provide a nice environment for the fish that will call the tank home.

If any of you would like to help out, I guess I'm after the following.

1. Some suggestions on some nice hardy plants to start off with.
2. Equipment - there lot's of lovely things to spend money on, but what is essential
3. Some hand holding...some of the plants I put in only a few weeks ago are throwing out long stems....what do I do with them

Any help is appreciated, and I look forward to sharing the results with you all!

best wishes,

nodding_dino

 

[Mr Miagi]

Welcome to TFF!

Il just answer 1 and 3 cause i dont knowreally what to say for 2 lol. I might give it a shot though!

1: Java moss and java fern dont need alot of light and can be very beautiful, hygrophilias are pretty hardy plants, but do recquire decent lighting to really grow strong. Vallas is a nice background plant, which doesnt always recquire alot of light, but will benefit from medium to high levels. Wisteria is another i have which is an excellent "filler" for gaps! They are only a few, but planted together they look good. Also, of the top of my head, anubias, sword grass, and riccia.....theres alot really!

3: What plant is it do u know? If it is something like vallas, it is sending runners out, and will propagate themseles, but if its wist. you might want to cut the branch and bury it into your substrate for pretty simple propagation.

 

[zig]

Hiya and welcome to the forum

Ok just to start you off with some basics to get you started, a little bit of homework on your part will go a long way to get you off to a successful start, problems with planted tanks can start early if you are not prepared properly, but if you do some research in the beginning it will pay off for you and should lead to a very good start and good setup.

I think the most important thing for you to consider in the beginning is your lighting, the lighting you are prepared to have will determine what plants you will be able to grow, you really have 3 options, you could go for a low light option and only grow low light plants, a medium light option which would allow you to grow low and medium light plants, or a highlight option which would allow you to grow pretty much all plants, the only caveat on the highlight option is that it would require more maintainence and would definatly need co2.

The best place to start to consider your lighting options is to read gf225s pinned article on lighting at the top of this section of the forum, this will give you a good idea as to whats required.

I think once you have decided on this aspect it will make it a lot easier for you to be able to make a proper start.

Other things you will need are a good substrate and good fertilisers, but concentrate on the lighting first as this is really the first hurdle, the lighting that comes as standard in juwel tanks is not suitable for growing plants.

Just keep in mind that the option of growing low medium light plants requires a lot less maintainence than that of a highlight tank, but you can still achieve great results nonetheless.

 

[Nospherith]

What kind of substrate do you have? It's better for plant roots to have a fine gravel with particles between 1 to 2mm. Plants need a nutrient-rich substrate, so you can then supplement this gravel with Laterite, a commonly available gravel additive for plants.

I'd like to echo zig's recommendation about gf225's articles. They're really informative, I wish they were around when I was starting out.

Here's a link to get you stoked about getting into the hobby: http/www.vectrapoint.com/main/natureaquarium/nac.html

 

[nodding_dino]

well, first off, thanks to you all for the warm welcome and advice!

I have read through the articles as suggested and what follows (if I worked it out correctly ) is the WPG.

The tank has a volume of 125 litres which I think translates to (approx) 32 US Gallons. According to the Juwel site, the Rio 125 ships with 2 18/20W lights. I'm not sure why they quote two wattages, but I have used the lower value in my calculations - I therefore end up with a total wattage of 36. If I understand properly, this gives me WPG value of 1.125 which is quite low. I have added a reflector on each of the tubes - I presume this will make a slight difference (to the eye if nothing else) but nothing to write home about.

I had presumed that I would need to change the tubes, in fact I had read somewhere that Juwel use 'cheap' tubes to help keep costs down. Is there any particular tube that you good people would recommend? and is it best to have two of the same, or two at different temperatures?

A thought (as I'm writing this)...by changing the tubes, can I increase the wattage, or am I restricted by the ballast? Either way, I will make replacing the tubes my first job...in fact I will do this over the weekend.

As far as the substrate goes, I am using a very fine gravel...I suggest in the 1-2mm range. This is probably spread a little on the thin side at the very front of the tank...I guess depth wise I have 2" back --> 1" front. I had been considering topping this up with some more of the same...but maybe I could just increase the depth by getting hold of some laterite (is this generally available at LFS's?)? I had also considered using some sand as a mixture, is this beneficial or do you think I should stick with gravel instead?

If I'm out at the shops, is it worth me getting some fertilizers and/or a CO2 kit? If so, recomendations welcome!

Sorry for the barrage of questions, just trying to soak all the info up!

Best Wishes,

ND

 

[George Farmer]

Welcome to the Forum ND, you have come to the right plance for friendly and (hopefully) good advice.

Firstly you are in good company with your tank - I also have a Juwel Rio 125.

Secondly the biggest question I have for you is how far do you want to go? Do you want a heavily planted tank with lots of growth where algae doesn't stand a chance - in which case you will need to spend a few quid? I can certainly help you out there, you could set up a tank identical to mine for less than a third of the cost that I put in, I made A LOT of mistakes but learnt form them. You have the potential benefit from learning from mine before you even get properly started.

However, before I really "go off on one" let us know what you want from your tank and what your budget is.

I can certainly be a "mentor" if that's what you want.

Trying reading through my 34G Journal - it might be a little in-depth in places but should give you some ideas.
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=83762

To answer your questions briefly

1) Plant heavily with fast-growing stem plants from the start - this establishes a balance quickly and helps prevent algae. Ideal plants are Hygrophila, Ludwigia, Egeria, Water Sprite, Ambulia.

2) Essentials I consider -

Lighting - good quality and quantity of light (2 WPG minimum) with reflectors. Here's a link you should find useful -
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=99310

CO2 - 20 to 30ppm constant - get this running BEFORE going 2 WPG light or above. The Nutrafin units are cheap and easy to use, you will need two in your tank.

Substrate - fine gravel mixed with laterite is ideal.

Fertilisers - With 2 to 3 WPG light then generally most liquid ferts will do. Over this then the fast growth may necessitate macro ferts i.e. adding nitrates and phophates.

3) Re-plant the new stems.

Read my lighting article for a list of good plant tubes. http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=96754

The Maidenhead Aquatics in Harlestone Heath, Northampton is an excellent store BTW.

Hope this helps.

 

[nodding_dino]

gf255 I'm thrilled you've posted in this thread, I spent far too long reading all 15 (?) pages of your journal last night and didn't hit the sack until well past one (the alarm goes off at 5.30 so thats pretty late (early?) for me!!!)...the pictures are inspiring.

Regarding how far I would like to take it...I know that I won't settle for a tank with a scruffy half dead plant and a bubble diver....but the flipside is that time is always tight, so won't be able to spend every spare minute tending the tank. I would like to think that I could get a nicely planted tank...which would be pleasing to the eye and make a great habitat for the fish.

As far as budget goes...I hadn't really thought about it....I don't want to say that money isn't an issue, but I'm happy to put a bit of cash into making things work properly...even if I do do it in installments (of course, thats half the fun isn't it!)

I can certainly be a "mentor" if that's what you want.

thats a really kind offer, and seeing that your not too far away, you might even be able to share your shop secrets with me too!

There seems to be three main things that I need to get organised (wait - I thought of another one...thats 4!).

1. CO2 - I will take your advice and plump for the nutrafin units...are these cheaper online or are prices at LFS's comparable?

2. Extra lighting - Some guidance here please...should I jump in and add a third tube as my first step OR should I replace the existing tubes with plant friendly ones? If you recommend adding a third tube, I presume that I will have to get a ballast for it? Like I said, I've been out of the hobby for a few years, and I guess things have progressed a bit. Any tips appreciated.

3. Laterite - I presume I can get this at most LFS's? We have two great Maidenhead aquatics shops in my local area or would you all recommend a different source?

4. Some plants!!!! I will try to work out exactly what I have, and maybe you could all help me decide whether or not I should replace them with something else. I have notice a few online retailers that sell planting packs for what seems to be a very resonable price...is this the favoured method...?

Anyway, this is probably more than enough extra questions for now...I will do some more reading whilst I await everyones response!

I'm really excited about the project now!!!

 

[George Farmer]

Glad to hear of your enthusiasm mate.

CO2 - I bought my Nutrafin CO2 units from here at £15.99 each - http/www.aquatics-online.co.uk/Z079193.asp. You'll need to scroll down a bit to see them.

Next time you go shopping in a supermarket buy some dried bread-making yeast and bi-carbonate of soda. These replace the supplied "activator" and "stabiliser" sachets. I use 1/2 teaspoon of yeast and 1 level tsp of bi-carb and this this gives me 25 to 30ppm CO2. I change the mixtures alternately every 7 to 10 days so CO2 output remains stable.

Lighting - Upgrade your existing tubes first and fit reflectors. The site above is good for lighting too. If you can get them I strongly recommend Dennerle Special-Plant tubes, you may have to get them mail-order - Dennerle lighting They give a warm, yellow light but if and when you add more (higher colour temp.) tubes this can balance it nicely. A good combo is Dennerle Special-Plant (3000K) and Arcadia Freshwater Lamp (7500K).

You're correct to assume that you need extra ballasts to add extra tubes.

Get your CO2 running before adding more lighting.

If you want to add more tubes and assuming you're interested I have a spare ballast and 25W 30" Triton tube which is ideal for a cheap, quick upgrade. PM me if you want to know more.

Laterite - Guess what? http/www.aquatics-online.co.uk/Z101224.asp#product646
The bigger pack will be ideal. Try to get 1 to 3mm grade lime-free gravel, common gravels contain lime that increses pH and hardness over time. 25kg should be plenty. Have you thought of a heater-cable? Not essential but IMO a worthwhile investment.

Plants - http/aquaticplants.eu.com are a good start. Go for a collection to see what does well in you set-up. Also buy plenty of fast-growing stem plants to help acheive a quick balance. Once the system is balanced you can replace any plants with your final choices.

As for shops, you may have guessed by now I buy most of my dry goods online - much cheaper. Maidenhead outlets are excellent if you want to see before you buy, their livestock is good IME too. I use The Waterzoo in Peterborough frequently as they stock Dennerle products and their livestock is generally healthy. They sometimes have a good selection of plants as well.

Hope this has answered some of your questions. Feel free to ask for any more.

 

[nodding_dino]

before I go any further, for gods sake don't tell the wife...

I have ordered two of the Nutrafin CO2 units and a large bag of the Laterite from Aquatics Online...I nearly made a very costly mistake...thinking you meant 25Kg of the Laterite ...thankfully though I realised before I placed the order (well you did mention some intial investment...!!!)

I managed to sneak out of the office early and spoke with Andy from Greenline. All being well, I will receive a planting kit to suit a 30" tank on Friday. He also suggested some fertilizer, and seeing that it was only a couple of pounds extra (and his plants seemed very reasonable) I ordered some of that too. Apparently it comes in a mesh bag and I just plonk it in the tank...

Lastly I was about to order 2 of the Dennerle 24" tubes from Anglia Aquatics, I was ready to make the payment when I noticed a small 'ring the shop for fast deliveries' message, so will call them first thing in the morning and see if they can get me the tubes for Friday (wifey has agreed to wait in for the goodies so it makes sense to get them all in one go!).

So all being well, I'm pretty much ready to go! The weekend looks fairly free, so will try and get everything up and running then...

One thing I have now started to think about is a planting plan...how do you good people go about designing your aquascape...it's all well and good keeping the plants alive...but if the whole thing looks like a dogs dinner...!?!?!? Are there planting schemes available online?

thanks to you all for your continued help!

 

[nodding_dino]

2 Dennerle tubes ordered this morning too!

 

[George Farmer]

Excellent mate. You're well on the way. A couple of questions.

Have you got your reflectors yet?

The Juwel are ideal but a little more expensive than the Arcadia I think. I recommend buying the Juwel metal clips to replace the supplied plastic ones. The plastic becomes brittle over time and snaps real easy when you take off the reflectors for cleaning (I clean my tubes and reflectors with window cleaner monthly). They are more expensive initially but will save you money in the long-term.

What are you using as the main substrate, fine gravel?

Your laterite will require plenty of rinsing. I recommend putting all the laterite in an empty bucket and rinsing it with warm water under the tap. It will really discolour the water, keep rinsing until the water is nearly clear - don't worry about a little tinge, you'll be there forever otherwise, the gravel on top will stop the colour from entering the main water column. Mix all the laterite with the lower third of your gravel and top with plain gravel. Obviously the gravel will require plenty of rinsing too - do this until it runs clear, it will take a long time (hours) but will reward you with clear water when you add it to the tank.

I take it your not going the heater-cable route? Fair enough, there usefulness is questionable anyway as long as you have plenty of plant growth (which you should!)

As for planting plans (aquascaping or layout) - obviously it's down to personal taste and artistic ability. There are a few "rules" though. I won't go too deep but the first thing to acheive is a decent hardscape i.e. decor and its positioning. Bogwood/driftwoods are popular. If you want a natural look then go for a nice big bit of wood and plant your layout around that. The wood is the main focal point and the plants should compliment it. Attaching Java ferns and mosses to woods can make them look more natural. I'm a big fan of the twisted root type of wood. The best example of this I have seen in a long time is in zig's wonderful tank. http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=99506

Here's a few links that will keep you occupied for a while -

http/www.freshwateraquariumplants.com/aq...scaping101.html
http/showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2004...e=view-showcase
http/www.aquariumdesigngroup.com/index.p...&wrap=Portfolio
http/www.dennerle.de/ENGLISCH/e_frameset.htm (click on Aquacapes link)

I imagine you will get a lot of different species from Greenline, some of which will do well, some won't. Wait a good few weeks to see what does, see which you like the best and buy more of them. Throw any away that don't grow well rather than adjusting your set-up, beware that some species included may not be true aquatics. You'll soon know.

 

[nodding_dino]

I have two Juwel reflectors in situ already, although I just have the plastic clips that came with them - I will keep my eyes open for the metal replacements (are these an actual Juwel part?)

I probably didn't make it clear when I first started the thread, but the tank is already running...not ideal by any stretch of the imagination, but I think as long as I'm careful, I get get back on track with how things should have been done in the first place!

I have very fine (1-2mm) gravel in place at the moment, and the reason I didn't plump for a heater cable is because I presumed it would be difficult to retro fit without a complete strip down (maybe next time around ). I will give the laterite a good clean. My plan is to do a heavy (50%) water change, I will add the laterite SLOWLY and let it fall into the tank...I will then give it a gentle mix by hand. I'll get sanother bag of plain (fine) gravel to run across the top. What's the optimal total depth?

Thanks for the links, I'll take a proper look at the sites tonight, what kind of space should I leave between plants?

Thanks for all the continued support!

 

[George Farmer]

The metal clips are Juwel. I imagine most LFS will stock them.

Sorry, I didn't realise the tank was running. Aim for a total substrate depth of about 3 inches, possibly more if you want to grow Echinodorus species (Amazon swords) or Crypts. It may be worth keeping some of your laterite (about a quarter - there's plenty in the big packet) to one side so you can add it pure to around the planting sites of root-feeding plants as described above.

If you plan a strip down in the future then now is the time - no plants to uproot, minimal bio-disruption etc. You could add your laterite more effectively this way and install a heater-cable. Obviously this is only a suggestion, I just think it's better to get the system as well equipped as possible from the start. If you're anything like me then you'll only wish you had done these things earlier. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I learnt the hard way. I run a 25W Rena-cor heater cable, it's on a timer that comes on through the night (tank gets too hot during day at the moment). http/www.aquatics-online.co.uk/searchres...&s=25W+rena+cor. You'll need extra clips too. I use Algarde airline suction caps as these are much cheaper than the Rena one's. You'll need 3 packs. http/www.aquatics-online.co.uk/Z058165.asp#product411

Here's another link (because you haven't read enough yet!!!) for you to read about the benefits of substrate heating - http/www.fishprofiles.net/faq/plant-cables.asp

Planting- Plant stem plants in groups of the same species. Plant the stems without lead weights using tweezers and about 1" apart, deeper the better. Plant bulbs and plants with rhizomes with enough space to allow for their growth. I think Greenline give you a planting guide with their collections.

 

[nodding_dino]

well, I have some good news and some bad news...the good news first...

The CO2, Laterite, Plants and Dennerle tubes have arrived and are just waiting for me to get back from work!

the bad news is that the missus opened the invoices and knows how much I spent )

So, it looks as though I'm good to make a start on things this weekend!

You mention putting the plants in with tweezers...can I get these from a LFS?

 

[George Farmer]

You mention putting the plants in with tweezers...can I get these from a LFS?

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You could really make the wife mad and use the tweezers she plucks her eyebrows with (assuming she does)!

I doubt most LFS will stock them. I use an old pair used in a surgery. You can get proper planted ones from Dennerle but they're expensive (£15).