Finally... I Start The Marine Chapter Of Fish-keeping!

[timmystood]

OK!! So i'm getting a new tank on Saturday!! YAY!! Anyways, I've finally decieded to start Marine!! At first I don't really want any Live Rock.. just fish.. so what equipment do I need??

I've got:
Tank
Mature Filter
Hydrometer
Heater..

... basically everything needed to keep freshwater and brackish.. what else do I need? Do I need improved lighting for Marine's or is that just for the Live Rock/Coral??

- Will the fish be OK without any live rock??
- Is it really expensive to mix up the salt water?? (I have a Brackish tank at 1.008SG and that costs enough already)
- Do I have to use RO water or is tap water OK (just like freshwater)??

Any help is very very much appreciated!

 

[timmystood]

bump

 

[waterwatereverywhere]

Hi, I used to keep marines and am planning a return to the salty world soon; there are others on here with lots more experience than me but I'll try and answer as far as I know

You'll find divided opinion on whether you need a protein skimmer for fish only. I would include one if I were you though.

Don't need to worry about improved lighting if you're only going to keep fish.

Salt's not cheap but if you can store it, it's best to get it in the biggest quantities you can as that works out MUCH cheaper. You'll be aiming at SG of about 1.025, so you can work that one out!

Marine's are less forgiving than FW - if you can source RO water you'll have much better chance of success.

I've kept both fish only and a reef with live rock. If cost stops you going for live rock, fine, start with FO, but don't go for FO just because it seems simpler. Live rock makes it much easier to keep a stable system as it works as a natural filter, as well as looking good! Yes you can do without it, but you might need a better filter than you'd use for FW. And maybe someone else could advise on whether the same bacteria are responsible for nitrification in SW as in FW - I'm not sure, so I don't know whether you could call your filter "mature" for SW. Of course live rock makes the price of your system rocket, due to the cost of the rock itself and the lighting upgrade you'd need.

Be warned though that SW is addictive and the cost of your interest WILL rocket in time as you HAVE to upgrade and upgrade eg many reefkeepers use a sump underneath the main tank to store away heaters, protein skimmer, carbon, phosphate remover, etc.... And you may decide you can't do without an automatic top-up system, a calcium reactor, etc as time goes on!

The options are many and varied. There's lots of good advice in the pinned articles at the top of the marine section.

Most importantly, do loads of research before you start. Be sure of what you're aiming at and that you have the time and funds to achieve it.

Good luck, you won't regret it

 

[Mr Miagi]

Tank
Mature Filter
Hydrometer
Heater..

What does Mature Filter mean? IE have you got one running on a marine system already? I note youve got a brakish tank at 1.008SG. If you plan to remove this filter over, your bacteria would die from a change in salinity. I ran an Eheim 2028 on my reef before I changed it over to my FOWLR. This didnt have any die-off because the levels (temp and salinity) were the same in both tanks.

Youll will want some decent test kits. Might just pay to buy Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia, pH and Alkalinity seen as though you wont need others for now. You might be able to find those in a package.

Thought about a Sump and getting your tank drilled for an overflow? This can house all your unsightly's like a skimmer ( recomended with a higher fish waste load and no LR) and heater, and adds water volume.

Do I need improved lighting for Marine's or is that just for the Live Rock/Coral??

Nope, if your not going to go down the coral road, you wont need much more than a T8 or two.

- Will the fish be OK without any live rock??

They would, if your filter is the correct size for the tank and its inhabitants. Id much prefer live rock though anyday. It looks better, acts as the finest filtration, and provides many a hiding spot for your fish. Not to mention the ineterest it holds/reveals, and the benefit of a pleasing looking tank. Thats up to the individual though. Is it because of cost your holding out on LR? Or is it your just not keen on the look or the baddies?

- Is it really expensive to mix up the salt water?? (I have a Brackish tank at 1.008SG and that costs enough already)

Well if you find mixing too 1.008 expensive, RUN! Yes, it can get real expensive. If you live close to a clean source of sea water, you can collect your own (NSW = Natural Sea Water). But you should be able to judge how much salt you use to reach 1.008 and how much extra it will take to reach 1.025

- Do I have to use RO water or is tap water OK (just like freshwater)??

RO water is highly recomended, and if you'd like to succeed in the long run, I would class it as neccesary. If you collect NSW, you wont need RO, if you wanna mix your own SSW (synthetic salt water) its worth buying from a shop or buying your own unit (note buying your own unit will work out cheaper in the long run). Evaporation removes water from your tank, not salt, so as a concequence, youll need to top up with FW whenever the loss starts to become significant, so again, youll need some RO.

If you think about it and do some maths, work out the best option for you and your situation.

You didnt include the size of the tank, and any planned inhabitants, as these could change the plans of what you'll need to do in order to keep them long term and healthy.

 

[timmystood]

Thanks for the replies. It seems like an alien world at the moment.. but so did Tropical when I began keeping them.

I'm not sure on the tank size and I was planning on keeping maybe a few clown fish, some tangs and some cool invertbrates such as crabs, shrimp etc. Also, in the long-run, maybe a lion fish?? Really, that's all i'm after to start with. I will eventually get some LR but to start with I was just going to run a FO tank to get used to the challenges of saltwater! Thanks for the advice I'm getting the tank on Saturday...

Just a few more questions:
- I really don't want to pay out for a protein skimmer, are they a must? Will regular water changes replace their job??
- Roughly how much is RO water from a LFS and how long can it be stored for? Does anything such as minerals need adding to RO water?

TIM

 

[SkiFletch]

8 Well, please keep in mind when selecting tanks that Tangs require very long tanks as they are open water swimmers. I wouldn't put one in anything less than 48" long, and prefferably more like 60" in length and no less than 18" from front to back. That puts you up into the 75 and higher gallon range. And while stability also gets better with larger tanks, so does cost. Since cost is a concern for you, Tangs might be out of the question for the moment. Also, fullsize lionfish should be avoided since they tend to eat tank inhabitants that are smaller than they are . Dwarf lions cacn work out just fine in smaller tanks though.

A few words about skimming. Protien skimming becomes necessary when one of two things happens... Either A, your tank volume exceeds 30-50 gallons, or B, you stock heavily with messy predators.

And about LR. In my humble oppinion, if you want a longterm successful saltwater tank, liverock is essential. You can lower the cost by using baserock or man-made base rock which is seeded by a smaller volume of LR, but nothing man-made compares to the success of LR.

 

[timmystood]

OK, thanks... I'll scrap the tangs idea and just go for a few clown fish with some smaller cretins for the bottom of the tank... and maybe eventually go for a dwarf lionfish!

If I was to get a tank smaller than 30G then I wouldn't need a protein skimmer, is that what your saying??

I will get liverock eventually.. but it may be a little while!

 

[SkiFletch]

Yes, you wont need a skimmer in a tank less than 30g.

 

[andywg]

When doing a FOWLR you are still better off with a skimmer as you will find yourself feeding a little more, and in any event, protein skimmers are a very useful thing, and the only reason you don't normally have one on a 30 gallon or less is because it is not so costly to do more frequent water changes to keep the water in check.

Most people who specialise in FOWLR say the skimmers are as important as the live rock and advise the largest skimmer you can afford and fit. This is especially so if you are after messy preds such as lions (and if you want a lion I would advise against having inverts as they are most lionfishes' food of choice in the wild).

So while you may save some expense at the outset by not getting a PS, you will be paying for it in increased salt costs until you get one. It's the trade off, pay what seems a lot now, or pay a lot more over the next couple of years. That's why I advise on Tunze, after 2 years you are saving money in electrics, despite the huge outlay cost.

 

[timmystood]

OK, thanks for your advice everyone..
These are my plans..

To start out with I will be just having a less than 30G FO marine tank containing a few clown fish and some invertabrates. The lionfish idea is out of the window, for the time being.
To begin, I will not be using live rock or coral - but eventually will upgrade to tank which can handle live rock within the near future when I can afford to/have the room.
I have taken everyone's advice but have deceided against a PS, only for the time being. I will get one at a later date, again, once I can afford it/have room.
I believe I will use RO water...

Few more questions though:
- How can RO water be stored if brought from LFS and how long does it last? Does anything need adding to it?
- What do clown fish eat?
- Which Salt do you recommened?
- Any other advice you can give is very much appreciated

Thank you

 

[SkiFletch]

I dont know what you guys use over there in the UK, but I store my RO water in one gallon plastic milk jugs. Rinsed out obviously. Rubbermaid tubs work pretty well too. Basically, anything that is plastic, covered from dust settling on/in it, and "food grade" will suffice. Also consider convenience, hence i use the 1 gals (easy to carry and add water )

 

[bunjiweb]

Don't take this the wrong way, but wouldnt you rather wait, save up more money and be able to produce a proper marine tank rather than doing it on the cheap and skimping on fairly important parts of a successful marine tank.

Don't aim at the bottom of the ladder because you will just turn out either unhappy with the results, or decide that you want to go a step further anyway, so you may aswell start off properly.

Do lots of research and take your time, DONT RUSH!

Ben

 

[andywg]

Have to agree with Bunji here, Ask most people what their biggest mistake was in marine keeping and they will say it was starting out with a cheaper tank that cost them a lot more in the long run to put right. If you don't have patience to save up for live rock, then you probably aren't going to have the patience for marine tanks.

 

[timmystood]

OK, well the tank I got today completely changed my plans!! I got a 150UK Gallon tank!

So, I obviously need a protein skimmer now... but I have no knowledge of them at all, so could somebody:
a ) Explain what they do
b ) Recommened one


Also, I'm currently cycling the tank but can't wait to get stocking. I do want to use LR and Coral now (change of heart!), so obviously I need to get lighting sorted out.. can someone explain how I need to do this? Is Pet Pirates (one of TFF's Sponsors) one of the company's that supply the right lighting?

I'm finally going Marine!!

150 Gallons! Cool!

 

[SkiFletch]

Protein skimmers are a beautiful piece of equipment IMO, engineering simplicity at its best. Long story short, you inject as many microbubbles as you can into a circular column of water. Then you stir up the water in that column and collect the bubbles that rise to the top. When the bubbles finally get to the top they have lots of dissolved organic proteins and other waste attached to their edges which are then collected in a cup.

On a tank that large its difficult to overskim, so I'd look for a skimmer rated for 200+ UK gallons. People on your side of the pond seem to like Deltec and Euroreef skimmers. But I'm not entirely sure, someone else should make a final reccomendation. Over here in the states, AquaC and ASM skimmers are usually the skimmers of choice but I dont know about their price/availability in UK markets. You'll also need to consider running a sump with a tank/skimmer that large. Most people do because the equipment is so big they really want to get it out of the way.

As for lights, depends on your tank's depth and what you want to keep. If its 18" or less deep you could consider T5 or Power Compact (PC) flourescent. But since I'm pretty sure its more like 24" deep at that volume, Metal Halides are probably the way to go. More than likely 2 ~250w bulbs. What are the dimensions, and how many bracers on the top does the tank have.

A 150 is a big tank, you're gonna love all the flexibility in livestock you can have over the years. Gonna look awesome