Fin rot , nipping or tears?

BettaBoop

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Hi all,

My Bettas fins are looking a little worse for wear lately.

Not sure if it's fin rot, nipping or if he's tearing his fins on a plant.

He's in with a few neon tetras but I've never seen them nip at him, only at each other.

Any advice?
 

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First thing to do is remove any fake plants or decor that could potentially be tearing his fins. Then separate him from the tetra. They can be nippy little guys despite their rep for being peaceful; I had some that shredded my guppies fins. Also despite the fact that some people claim success at keeping bettas with other fish, you have to remember that bettas are solitary fish in the wild. It doesn't come naturally to them to live in the same territory with other fish, and even if we think it's 'fine', we're not able to sense or detect the pheromones and allomones that fish release into the water. Both the betta and the tetra could be causing each other a low grade, constant stress that you're unaware of, but will leave them weaker and more vulnerable to disease and infections. It's not fair for us to force fish to live together that wouldn't naturally mix in the wild. Something we've also seen far too often is people coming here and posting that their betta - who had previously lived peacefully with it's tankmates - had snapped and gone on a killing spree. A betta can easily kill a few tetra overnight.


Keep the water in both tanks very clean, and once separated, consider salt treatment for the bettas fins, although being away from the tetra and in very clean water with lots of water changes might be enough for his fins to heal.
 
Do a quick search on the forum for "betta killing tetra" and you'll see far too many stories like this;

 
He's also an extremely chill Betta and has never flared once. Could he still be stressed even if he looks fully chill?

If the tetras ever go near him or vice versa he still doesn't flare and doesn't seem to really care about them. Haven't seen him nip or anything.

Also the plants I have are real plants. Would the leaves be sharp enough to cause rips or tears? He absolutely loves swimming back and forth in and out of one of my plants.
 
Real plants shouldn't have leaves sharp enough to tear fins, but I thought I saw some fake decor in the photo? Some of those plastic ornaments, or even real wood, can have surprisingly sharp edges, so worth checking and sanding down any that feel sharp when you run your finger over them.

Have a read through this paper about bettas, it contains lots of useful information, including a part about bettas who showed a lot of flaring and aggressive posturing when exposed to seeing other bettas, stopped showing as many aggressive threat displays after continuous exposure to the other betta. But the note about that that I find concerning is:
"The question is whether it concerns actual habituation to the sight of the other male betta, or whether other mechanisms, similar to learned helplessness, underlie these findings. Although threat signals may wane following prolonged exposure of male bettas to each other, this does not seem to influence fight readiness or fight outcome (Meliska and Meliska, 1976; Meliska et al., 1980)"

Now consider this;

"When multiple fish species are kept together, behavioral changes are seen both at interspecies and at species level (Sloman et al., 2011). It has also been documented that male bettas send aggressive signs to other fish species, which may be followed by an actual fight (Johnson and Peeke, 1972; Johnson and Johnson, 1973; Miley and Burack, 1977)."

All fish release hormones into the water which sends signals to other fish. Pheromones and allomones. You'll need to do your own research to find out more about that. But knowing that, I personally wouldn't keep a fiercely solitary and territorial species like a betta with other fish, both for the betta's sake and the other fish. If the fish seems chill, I can't prove whether he's actually okay with the other fish, or he's suffering from learned helplessness; because he certainly isn't given a choice in the matter, we put the fish in these situations.

I know for sure that bettas live solitary lives in the wild, males only interacting with a female briefly to spawn, before chasing her off as well. I know that captive bettas can and will attack other species, seeing them as invading their territory. So despite some personality differences, a betta is still a betta, and we can't and shouldn't try to change the nature of a species that has evolved to live in a certain way for thousands of years. I wouldn't want to risk the betta snapping and killing the neons.

But whether you choose to do so or not is your decision. But at least now you have some info you can look into, so you can make a fully informed decision.
 
Thanks for all the info!

Ahhh sorry, you are correct. That ornament does have 2 silicone-ish plantlike things on it. I have been thinking about removing it anyway so will do so now.

I've never thought about the learned helplessness thing! That's very interesting to think about. When I got him he was in a teeny tiny cup all lined up with other bettas. The two either side of him were flaring like crazy so perhaps he did just give up. He looked a bit depressed when I got him.

I think I might transfer the tetras into a different tank, especially as they have grown a fair bit since I got them and they tend to spread out a lot instead of schooling :/
 
Thanks for all the info!

Ahhh sorry, you are correct. That ornament does have 2 silicone-ish plantlike things on it. I have been thinking about removing it anyway so will do so now.

I've never thought about the learned helplessness thing! That's very interesting to think about. When I got him he was in a teeny tiny cup all lined up with other bettas. The two either side of him were flaring like crazy so perhaps he did just give up. He looked a bit depressed when I got him.

I think I might transfer the tetras into a different tank, especially as they have grown a fair bit since I got them and they tend to spread out a lot instead of schooling :/
You're very welcome! The tetra might be hiding a lot more since the betta is there, see how they are once in a different tank, they might school some more! They need a fair bit of swimming space and a decent sized group to school, minimum of six to eight neons, but as far as they're concerned, the more the merrier.
 

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