Filtration Options For A 75 Gal (284 L)

[Aphotic Phoenix]

My boyfriend just purchased a 75G (284L) tank + stand at a very good price, but now it's up to me to find the most economical solution to all of the hardware! Both of us have maintained smaller low-tech set-ups for several years, but with no personal experience with a larger volume tank it's hard for me to be sure what variables are most important.

The definite factors:

1 : The tank will start off as a simple community tank, and be converted to a planted tank over time.
- From what I understand this will effect the necessary flow rate, and somewhat rules out the use of a wet/dry filter since they gas off CO2 faster. However, since plants help act as a biological filter, how much flowrate can come from power heads vs the filtration system?

2 : The stocking will consist of small fish.
- All of the stocking choices will be based around compatibility with Colombian Tetras (Hyphessobrycon columbianus) which get to be about 3 inches (7 cm) max, and rules out a lot of larger species. If he is determined to buy something that eats algae, it'll most likely be bristlenose or pitbull plecos, as he's already learned a painful lesson about catching large common ones. XD If the tank is moderately stocked, how much will this factor effect needed filter turnover/efficiency vs keeping good current?

3 : He really wants at least a partial rock wall as a background.
- While I know that Mbuna keepers use these all of the time, I'm concerned that it may just lead to additional problems with detritus buildup, and impeding water flow.

Options presented thus far:

1 : 2 x Ehiem 2217 Classics (w/ media) which would have a combined rating of 528 GpH (1998 LpH) at the cost of ~$300 plus powerheads if needed.
- I made this suggestion BEFORE he bought the tank, and he did not like this option as it was more than he was willing to spend. As for other other brands... I've read too many bad reviews about Fluvals, and since noise is a factor RENA's are not a great option apparently.

2 : 1 x Ehiem 2217 Classic ($150) =264 GpH, plus a Marineland Emperor 400 =400 GpH ($50-$60), and powerheads if needed.
- Considering the noise thing, an HoB filter doesn't make the most sense, but there is that whole ease of use and low cost that makes it appealing.


He's not really happy at all about the running double filters idea, and I'm not 100% positive that so much turnover needs to come directly from the filters. I've been trying my hardest to research this as much as possible on my own, but research is never as good as first hand experience especially when multiple factors come into play.

If anyone has some suggestions, some knowledge to spare, or can point me towards some helpful info I'd really appreciate it! (Especially since there have been multiple people asking me about big tanks recently D: )

 

[bitteraspects]

i see youre in the US. lucky you. that makes you eligible to take advantage of a system our friends in the UK do not have access to. the AquaClear110 HOB.

flows 500gph (almost double the 2217), holds just over 4l of media (around %80 of the 2217), and you can get one for under half the price of the 2217 at retail. (i believe if you go the ebay route, theyre cheaper. just over $50). also this sytem provides silent operation (as long as your water level is up. the waterfall slide will get a little louder as the water level drops)

unlike the emperor system, the AquaClear filter pushes the water to the bottom of the chamber and up through the media (the same way a canister works)

a single AC110 will be enough for your tank. 2 would be even better. and even if you go with two, it puts you at half the cost of either of the suggested combinations above.

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

Thanks bitteraspects, I'll add that to the list of options, as HoB/Power filters tend to be quite a bit more fool proof, (and he likes anything he can stick chemical filter media in...darn chemistry majors! XD)

Downsides wise however, I think that choice would put a damper on certain upgrades such as inline heaters or connecting an external CO2 reactor to the output if we wanted to do so in the future. (He says he doesn't want CO2, but if he installs the lighting system he's thinking of making he may change his mind.)

Another issue I could foresee is that the lack of flexibility for intake placement may cause some issues depending on how the rock wall is constructed. Definitely something to discuss!

I am still curious however, as to how much flow rate needs to pass through the bio filter itself?
In some cases it seems like people are stressing the mechanical filtration aspect at least as much as the biological filtration aspect, but I fail to see how having a lot of gunk building up in the filter over a period of a month is better than siphoning it out once a week? (At least in the case of those who vac planted tanks)

 

[bitteraspects]

well first, you should be doing your WC weekly, not monthly, so build up in the filter should not be an issue. also, there is no such thing as only mechanical filtration. your filter pad, foam, sponge, wool, etc, does also house beneficial bacteria. so unless youre throwing out the media, you are doing both mech and bio. having the debris in the filter rather then on your substrate and scattered around the tank is more for keeping the tank visually appealing than anything. on top of that, there is a school of though that says having the debris/detrius in the tank in direct flow of the filter provides quicker aerobic conversion of the ammonia released, into nitrates. though i have not personally looked far enough into this study to say for sure.

in regards to your intake concerns, the aquaclear system also provides more flexibility in customization because of its design. here is a re-plumbing write up i did. this one is a vert basic plumbing job, but i have done much more complicated ones depending on the tsanks requirements.

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...mbing+aquaclear

hope this helps

 

[raptorrex]

My boyfriend just purchased a 75G (284L) tank + stand at a very good price, but now it's up to me to find the most economical solution to all of the hardware! Both of us have maintained smaller low-tech set-ups for several years, but with no personal experience with a larger volume tank it's hard for me to be sure what variables are most important.

The definite factors:

1 : The tank will start off as a simple community tank, and be converted to a planted tank over time.
- From what I understand this will effect the necessary flow rate, and somewhat rules out the use of a wet/dry filter since they gas off CO2 faster. However, since plants help act as a biological filter, how much flowrate can come from power heads vs the filtration system?

2 : The stocking will consist of small fish.
- All of the stocking choices will be based around compatibility with Colombian Tetras (Hyphessobrycon columbianus) which get to be about 3 inches (7 cm) max, and rules out a lot of larger species. If he is determined to buy something that eats algae, it'll most likely be bristlenose or pitbull plecos, as he's already learned a painful lesson about catching large common ones. XD If the tank is moderately stocked, how much will this factor effect needed filter turnover/efficiency vs keeping good current?

3 : He really wants at least a partial rock wall as a background.
- While I know that Mbuna keepers use these all of the time, I'm concerned that it may just lead to additional problems with detritus buildup, and impeding water flow.

Options presented thus far:

1 : 2 x Ehiem 2217 Classics (w/ media) which would have a combined rating of 528 GpH (1998 LpH) at the cost of ~$300 plus powerheads if needed.
- I made this suggestion BEFORE he bought the tank, and he did not like this option as it was more than he was willing to spend. As for other other brands... I've read too many bad reviews about Fluvals, and since noise is a factor RENA's are not a great option apparently.

2 : 1 x Ehiem 2217 Classic ($150) =264 GpH, plus a Marineland Emperor 400 =400 GpH ($50-$60), and powerheads if needed.
- Considering the noise thing, an HoB filter doesn't make the most sense, but there is that whole ease of use and low cost that makes it appealing.


He's not really happy at all about the running double filters idea, and I'm not 100% positive that so much turnover needs to come directly from the filters. I've been trying my hardest to research this as much as possible on my own, but research is never as good as first hand experience especially when multiple factors come into play.

If anyone has some suggestions, some knowledge to spare, or can point me towards some helpful info I'd really appreciate it! (Especially since there have been multiple people asking me about big tanks recently D: )

i would suggest none of the filters listed.
A tetra ex2400, real flow 1000-1200 lph. might just be up to it. the eheim 2080, real flow 1200lph, will suffice too. or the FX5. personally i would look at the last two. the eheim is more expensive, but has a good reputation. the FX5, apart from its size, is simply hard to beat. both for cost and flow rate.

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

well first, you should be doing your WC weekly, not monthly, so build up in the filter should not be an issue.

I'm sorry if my post was not clear. We both perform WEEKLY waterchanges (hence the mention of weekly siphoning), and I personally run my tank with dual filters, plus altered water chemistry (50% distilled 50% tap), but all filters require maintenance as well including intake cleaning, and clearing debris from the media when flow rate is effected. As for debris in the substrate being unsightly...they have never been noticeable in my tank in the first place (until gravel vac time anyway XD ).

*edit - couldn't finish 'cause I was rushing out of work*
Thanks for the suggestions boboboy. I'm afraid he'll refuse even the fluval due to the price, despite me warning him that filtration was going to cost several hundred dollars. The ebay prices are looking promising so there may be a chance.

We are both aware that primary function of a filter is to house the bacteria necessary to Ammonia and Nitrites into Nitrates. He is also perfectly aware that plants are capable of utilizing Nitrogenous wastes, which is why it is VERY hard to convince him that the filter needs to be a X turnover per hour. I'm personally very curious because although I subscribe to the "you cannot overfilter a tank" mentality, I do have to wonder how much benefit comes directly from good water circulation vs water circulation directly through the filter.

Furthermore, he is a chemist, and therefore will NOT allow me to use "because that's what everyone says". Without something more concrete I'm only discrediting myself.

 

[draconis]

I have a 75 G and recently upgraded from a Tetratec to dual AquaClear 500. The AquaClear are very good filters but I ran into an unexpected problem where the tank would leak slightly from the bottom edges when I put the filters. Apparently the weight of both filters is too much on the same side of the tank. I fixed it by supporting the filters with kmart shower rods. The water is much clearer now and I get much less brown algae. I also added some anacaris and they are so far growing fine.

 

[bitteraspects]

what is your tank made out of? ive never heard of this problem. i have run 3 ac500 on a 75g and never had a weight issue.

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

draconis - Are you sure there wasn't some kind of spillover from the filters catching in bottom frame? I agree with bitteraspects that it's pretty weird for the tank to leak only when you've got the filter weight on the tank.

I guess I should update. He bought the Emperor 400 since he found a good deal on one, and is looking at an Eheim Pro 3 now for the canister apparently. XD He claims he's seen them for a good price, but I warned him to be careful to note if that's with or without media while making price comparisons. I'm not sure how I feel about the Emperor...I wish I'd looked at it instead of just taking his word on it since the "bio-wheels" are basically going to act like a wet/dry would. Plus that thing is huge! Trying to convince him to put a black background on to hide the majority of it. XD

In the meantime I've been researching lighting systems, and sketching up some layouts. Hope to start a journal soon once there is more to share.

A big thanks to everyone who has contributed thus far!

 

[bitteraspects]

he should get the eheim, cause the emp 400 is better used as a paperweight

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

he should get the eheim, cause the emp 400 is better used as a paperweight

Bad personal experience with that particular filter?

The intention was always to run dual filters, but after doing a fair amount of research I realized that it may not be necessary to do so if the tank is well planted. Hence the questioning about turnover through the filter.

What I'll probably recommend for him to do with the Emperor is cut down some big filter foam pads to fit instead of messing with the (expensive) inserts, and maybe once we've moved on to the planting stage, and are sure the plants are growing well, replace it with powerheads to retain good water movement.

 

[bitteraspects]

first flaw of the emperor is the bio-wheel. its nothing more then a marketing fringe. the concept is very good, but unfortunately, when the wheel stops spinning. (and it will). any bacteria on the side not submerged will be killed, and the portion that is submerged, is not much at all.
next is the spraybar. im not sure what it is about this internal spraybar design, but it is infamous for clogging. (a quick google search should turn up quite a few hits)
and of course, one of my personal favorites, the media cartridge. not only are the replacements expensive, but they provide little surface area, and no means of customization. forcing you to use their regimen, which includes carbon (which im not sure if you use, but you definitely dont need). they do offer a fillable media cartridge. (big grey plastic cartridge thing), but again, it holds very little media.
beyond these things, you have a very basic filter, no better then a whisper, or resun model hob. it will filter your tank, but for the pricetag, there are much better systems out there. i used to use these filters exclusively for many years before being introduced to the aquaclear line.

 

[raptorrex]

I have a 75 G and recently upgraded from a Tetratec to dual AquaClear 500. The AquaClear are very good filters but I ran into an unexpected problem where the tank would leak slightly from the bottom edges when I put the filters. Apparently the weight of both filters is too much on the same side of the tank. I fixed it by supporting the filters with kmart shower rods. The water is much clearer now and I get much less brown algae. I also added some anacaris and they are so far growing fine.

with other on this thread. i very much doubt it the tank that is leaking. if it is, change it now, not later.

Furthermore, he is a chemist, and therefore will NOT allow me to use "because that's what everyone says". Without something more concrete I'm only discrediting myself.

well if he has done the maths, working out exactly how many plants he needs to process the waste from his fish. along with how much light is needed. he may well be right. planted tanks can work with no bio filtration. but they still need flow. if it has none, you get pockets of still water. some of which is not exchanged by the weak flow. this can "bind" any "Nitrogenous", not releasing them to be converted.
i feel flow through the filter and the tank are, connected, though perhaps not Siamese twins. tank flow control, simply allows as much as possible of the water volume to be taken through the filter. it also allows the water to be distributed more evenly throughout the tank. helping avoid the "pockets" i speak of above.
flow through the filter effects how well the filter can use its bio media to convert the waste Ammonia, to nitrites, then finally to nitrates. both flow and media area are important here.

put simply. a good flow through the filter and tank, allows any pockets of dead water to be moved. the other result is that, nitrates from the cycled media, are aslo evenly distributed throughout the tank.

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

Thanks Bitteraspects for your indepth review. I'll look into the spraybar issue, as most of the complaints I'd read were related to the impeller becoming very noisy when any kind of grit enters the system. Unfortunately there isn't much I can do but look for ways to mod things a bit or consider possible fixes for future problems, as he's already ordered it on Ebay. After noting some complaints about how "cheap" the plastic is on the Eheim Pro 3's, I'll think I'll try to push boboboy's original suggestion of the Pro 2.


As for the flow issue... I wish I had the money available to set up two identical planted tanks with diluted ammonia drips and equal weights scattered food ("solids"), and test single filter + powerhead induced flow and another double filtered. One day! Regardless, I really wouldn't question filter turnover rate if some successful planted tank keepers didn't allude to the use of powerheads for flow rate.

Regardless, I'll keep researching, and suggesting, until I get fed up with suggestions being ignored. ~_^

 

[raptorrex]

Thanks Bitteraspects for your indepth review. I'll look into the spraybar issue, as most of the complaints I'd read were related to the impeller becoming very noisy when any kind of grit enters the system. Unfortunately there isn't much I can do but look for ways to mod things a bit or consider possible fixes for future problems, as he's already ordered it on Ebay. After noting some complaints about how "cheap" the plastic is on the Eheim Pro 3's, I'll think I'll try to push boboboy's original suggestion of the Pro 2.


As for the flow issue... I wish I had the money available to set up two identical planted tanks with diluted ammonia drips and equal weights scattered food ("solids"), and test single filter + powerhead induced flow and another double filtered. One day! Regardless, I really wouldn't question filter turnover rate if some successful planted tank keepers didn't allude to the use of powerheads for flow rate.

Regardless, I'll keep researching, and suggesting, until I get fed up with suggestions being ignored. ~_^

I look forward to your research. problem with getting it accepted, after you do it is, that you need to make the results "verifiable". otherwise, however correct you may be. your results can be no more than assumption/opinion.

whilst i don't do the "planted" thing. personally i see no collision between filter flow alone, and powerhead aided flow. providing the flow through the filter is, about, 5x (this seems to be the area when bacterial health is at it best). the rest is just to ensure as much as possible of the water volume goes through the filter, every hour. so if you speed up the filter flow, and direct it carefully, this should help. but you can just as easily keep 5x filter, and ensure the dead spots in your tank are serviced by a powerhead. the results should be the same,(give or take) more of the waste being drawn through the filter. as a result nitrates can be delivered more evenly through the tank, thus aiding plant growth.

i have found, in fishkeeping. there is only one way to do something. problem is, there are a thousand ways of getting there!