Fighter with other fish??

[Woody781]

They should, remind them they miss-led you when they sold them to you.

If you are getting a Betta remember they prefer lower light.

You could put 2 or 3 stems of Blue Stricta along the back or some Swords.

Maybe a few Crypts and another Anubias or 2,

Add a bit of Water sprite as the floating plant and you are set to go.

The Blue Stricta and Crypts will love the root tabs,

Thanks for the advice about the plants!! I can't paint the back as its not really my tank. About the light it's not often on because I got told from the pet shop that I was giving my plants too much light so I turn it on 2-4 hours a day. Do those plant need the light??

I so want to keep my tetras, I quite like them! Would they annoy the beta?? If so what fish would you put with a beta??

Thanks NickAu for giving me so much advice!!

 

[Woody781]

I believe they will get too big for the size of your tank which is under 10 gallons.
Not to mention the current factor...as others have explained.
Also the beta, as Byron explained beautifully is a solitary fish and doesn't like being with others. Even if you get a timid one and he choses not to murder the others ....his presence will stress out the other fish and visa versa.
That leads to unhealthy fish that simply will not live as long as they should.
I know there are people that have done this and they are (hopefully) very experienced and have larger tanks with heavy coverage where the fish can hide and feel safe.


Sadly we can't really ask anything from the pet shops as they just want to sell things.
Also most employees are kids that just don't know (or adults that don't either).
Always come here or another forum or just google.


And kudos to you for taking the steps to do right by your fish!

*****Also, we need to know what your water parameters are so we know what fish will and won't work for you.
PH, GH, KH, ammonia, chlorine, nitrate, nitrite*****

....oh and yes, take those sucker fish back!

Ok sucker fish are going back and hopefully they will take them back!!

What is KH and GH?? And how do you find out how much chlorine is in my tank??

I don't have a water testing kit myself yet but I'm going to get one. Which one should I get?

The more you people give advice, the more questions I have and the more I realise how little I know...

 

[Woody781]

Some have gotten along some haven't for me. I've got a male plakat with kuhli loaches , they get along perfectly.

I've also got bristle nose plecos with female bettas, they also get along until feeding time, which is when the bettas try eating the pleco's veggies and algae wafers. Now they get fed after lights out.

My very first betta... poor boy. I tried keeping him with serpae tetras, and they nipped his rays to the point of not being much of a crown tail anymore. He got his own tank after that.

I've tried keeping another male plakat with corydoras in a planted 36gal. He was a jerk and kept picking at the corydoras to the point of me moving them to a different tank.

I also made the mistake of trying to keep male guppies with a female betta (long time ago). She torn off their tails and killed them. Live and learn I suppose.

So I'd say it depends on the individual betta, what species you are trying to keep with them, and also cover and tank size. I think bottom feeders are the way to go if you wish to keep others with bettas. This way there is next to no chance of fin nipping and they generally won't be in the same zone as the betta.

When I was thinking of setting up a tank I thought I would like some bottom feeders and a beta -I was going to leave at that but a pet shop lady suggested Neon Tetras so I got them. Then tonight other people suggested about Catfish liking a faster current than Betas and Neons ~it's so frustrating being a novice. Now I dont know what to do ~I like my Neons but i also want a beta!!!

 

[Demeter32]

I find it best if you don't listen to the employees of big chain stores. Very seldom do they know what they are talking about. If any of the fish in the shop are dead in the tanks, acting sickly, or near death then that's all the more reason to not listen as they obviously don't know how to care for their fish. The internet is your best friend when planning to get fish, you can learn a lot.

If you like your neons but want another fish that probably won't get along, you should get another tank. Soon enough you will end up like the rest of us on here, hoarding several tanks I've got seven, half of then for bettas and half for African cichlids.

 

[Byron]

You (Woody781) have raised a great many issues in the successive posts, and it would take any of us a book to explain all of it. I will highlight a few things as background for moving forward. [And speaking of background, rather than paint, a cheaper alternative is a piece of plain black construction paper taped to the tank frame; I use this on my smaller tanks, and it increases the perception of space in the tank, making the back wall almost disappear, and fish and plants look lovely against black. Make sure it is not shiny--just get a sheet of black construction paper from a hobby-type store.]

Each species of fish has specific requirements it needs to be healthy. These requirements are inherent to the fish, conveyed by its DNA. So a fish "expects" certain things, and if one or more of these are not present, it will be under stress. Stress is serious, because 95% of all fish disease is directly caused by stress that becomes too much for the fish's physiology to handle. So we must aim to reduce and even eliminate as much stress as possible. The fish's requirements are the first step.

Water parameters are very important; these are the GH (general or total hardness, which is the lewvel of dissolved minerals in water), KH (carbonate hardness or Alkalinity) and pH (this is how we determine if water is on the acidic side or basic). [I cannot detail all of this, it would really take a book, but I just want you to be aware of things we need to look at with fish in an aquarium.] You should be able to ascertain the parameters (GH, KH, pH) of your tap water from the water authority; check their website.

Temperature is also a parameter of water, but one we can more easily control with aquarium heaters. Temperature drives the fish's metabolism, so it is critical that the fish be kept within a specific range for which it was designed by nature, otherwise it will be under stress and not function properly.

The aquascape is also very important; the habitat of the fish in nature is the key to what it needs. The substrate (some fish must have sand, some are fine with fine gravel, some may need dried leaves), and hardscape like wood, rock, or artificial decor to represent these, maybe plants, is vital. The overhead lighting affects fish. The current produced by the filter affects fish; some need more, some less, some none at all. Your neons like it dark, so dim overhead light, or floating plants, provide this; they also like slow-flowing water, contrary to the Borneo catfish that must have a current. Unless the aquarium is very large, say 4-5 feet in length, it is not possible to provide both, so one of these species will be at a loss.

With all the above factors in mind, we come to a community tank, which means an aquarium containing more than one species of fish. Here we have to consider the above requirements for each intended fish, and make sure that each species we intend has similar if not identical requirements as the others. Because these needs are programmed into the fish's DNA, they cannot be ignored because they are vital to the fish's well-being. Deprived of any of these, the fish will be weakened, under stress, more likely of disease, and inevitably a premature death.

The fish's behaviour also comes into this; naturally aggressive fish cannot be combined with quiet sedate fish.

Byron.

 

[Woody781]

I find it best if you don't listen to the employees of big chain stores. Very seldom do they know what they are talking about. If any of the fish in the shop are dead in the tanks, acting sickly, or near death then that's all the more reason to not listen as they obviously don't know how to care for their fish. The internet is your best friend when planning to get fish, you can learn a lot.

If you like your neons but want another fish that probably won't get along, you should get another tank. Soon enough you will end up like the rest of us on here, hoarding several tanks I've got seven, half of then for bettas and half for African cichlids.

I'll keep that in mind: note ~always search the net or talk on fish forums! Not pet shops!!

What other fish would go with Neons?
What other fish would go with betas? Surely something would? Are your bettas by themselves??

I would love another tank already but fish tanks suck up a lot of money!!!

 

[Byron]

What other fish would go with Neons?

Quite a few, but the space here is limiting.

What other fish would go with betas? Surely something would? Are your bettas by themselves??

Male Betta are not community fish. They should be on their own. There are two problems.

First, Betta (and I am thinking of the common Betta one sees, not wild caught different species) are specifically bred to fight, so they have inherent aggressive behaviours that are heightened. They often take an extreme dislike to other fish, of any sort, but particularly colourful species. Now, some Betta may be less inclined, and may even manage at least for a time (temperament can change suddenly) but it is a risk and responsible hobbyists do not put their fish at risk. Better to assume the individual Betta will be "normal" and thus keep it on its own. They deserve the care.

Second issue is the other fish frequently take to fin nipping when faced with a slowly undulating huge fin. Otherwise peaceful tetras for example can become real bullies and terrors to a Betta. That isn't fair to the Betta--or the tetras.

 

[Woody781]

You (Woody781) have raised a great many issues in the successive posts, and it would take any of us a book to explain all of it. I will highlight a few things as background for moving forward. [And speaking of background, rather than paint, a cheaper alternative is a piece of plain black construction paper taped to the tank frame; I use this on my smaller tanks, and it increases the perception of space in the tank, making the back wall almost disappear, and fish and plants look lovely against black. Make sure it is not shiny--just get a sheet of black construction paper from a hobby-type store.]

Each species of fish has specific requirements it needs to be healthy. These requirements are inherent to the fish, conveyed by its DNA. So a fish "expects" certain things, and if one or more of these are not present, it will be under stress. Stress is serious, because 95% of all fish disease is directly caused by stress that becomes too much for the fish's physiology to handle. So we must aim to reduce and even eliminate as much stress as possible. The fish's requirements are the first step.

Water parameters are very important; these are the GH (general or total hardness, which is the lewvel of dissolved minerals in water), KH (carbonate hardness or Alkalinity) and pH (this is how we determine if water is on the acidic side or basic). [I cannot detail all of this, it would really take a book, but I just want you to be aware of things we need to look at with fish in an aquarium.] You should be able to ascertain the parameters (GH, KH, pH) of your tap water from the water authority; check their website.

Temperature is also a parameter of water, but one we can more easily control with aquarium heaters. Temperature drives the fish's metabolism, so it is critical that the fish be kept within a specific range for which it was designed by nature, otherwise it will be under stress and not function properly.

The aquascape is also very important; the habitat of the fish in nature is the key to what it needs. The substrate (some fish must have sand, some are fine with fine gravel, some may need dried leaves), and hardscape like wood, rock, or artificial decor to represent these, maybe plants, is vital. The overhead lighting affects fish. The current produced by the filter affects fish; some need more, some less, some none at all. Your neons like it dark, so dim overhead light, or floating plants, provide this; they also like slow-flowing water, contrary to the Borneo catfish that must have a current. Unless the aquarium is very large, say 4-5 feet in length, it is not possible to provide both, so one of these species will be at a loss.

With all the above factors in mind, we come to a community tank, which means an aquarium containing more than one species of fish. Here we have to consider the above requirements for each intended fish, and make sure that each species we intend has similar if not identical requirements as the others. Because these needs are programmed into the fish's DNA, they cannot be ignored because they are vital to the fish's well-being. Deprived of any of these, the fish will be weakened, under stress, more likely of disease, and inevitably a premature death.

The fish's behaviour also comes into this; naturally aggressive fish cannot be combined with quiet sedate fish.

Byron.

Wow it's almost a book to read!! Thanks for all the information Byron!! The black background with paper sounds like a good idea and easy to do.

I know my temperature is on 23`C, I have a heater and a thermometer to show me this.

I can have the water tested again -I wouldn't mind getting my own testing kit but what to get?? One that measures the PH ammonia, nitrites and nitrates?? Can I get one that tests the water hardness?

 

[Woody781]

Quite a few, but the space here is limiting.



Male Betta are not community fish. They should be on their own. There are two problems.

First, Betta (and I am thinking of the common Betta one sees, not wild caught different species) are specifically bred to fight, so they have inherent aggressive behaviours that are heightened. They often take an extreme dislike to other fish, of any sort, but particularly colourful species. Now, some Betta may be less inclined, and may even manage at least for a time (temperament can change suddenly) but it is a risk and responsible hobbyists do not put their fish at risk. Better to assume the individual Betta will be "normal" and thus keep it on its own. They deserve the care.

Second issue is the other fish frequently take to fin nipping when faced with a slowly undulating huge fin. Otherwise peaceful tetras for example can become real bullies and terrors to a Betta. That isn't fair to the Betta--or the tetras.

Ok thanks! I may get another tank when the budget allows to get my beta. What other fish would you put with Neons then since I already have the Neons in the tank? I wouldn't put many more fish in.

 

[Byron]

I can have the water tested again -I wouldn't mind getting my own testing kit but what to get?? One that measures the PH ammonia, nitrites and nitrates?? Can I get one that tests the water hardness?

A test for hardness really isn't necessary unless one is into adjusting GH/KH which I wouldn't recommend. You can find out your source water GH and KH from the water authority, that is all we/you need to know now. GH and KH willnot change in the tank (there are exceptions, but generally).

A good kit is one like the API Master Combo that includes tests for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Once you are past the initial cycling, ammonia and nitrite will be less of an issue, but pH and nitrate are worth monitoring, periodically anyway.

What other fish would you put with Neons then since I already have the Neons in the tank? I wouldn't put many more fish in.

This is only a 34 liter (9 gallon) tank, so a group of neons which you could increase from six to 8 or 9, plus some suitable catfish like maybe a small group (meaning 6-7) of panda cories? Assuming the Borneo fish go back.

 

[Woody781]

A test for hardness really isn't necessary unless one is into adjusting GH/KH which I wouldn't recommend. You can find out your source water GH and KH from the water authority, that is all we/you need to know now. GH and KH willnot change in the tank (there are exceptions, but generally).

A good kit is one like the API Master Combo that includes tests for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Once you are past the initial cycling, ammonia and nitrite will be less of an issue, but pH and nitrate are worth monitoring, periodically anyway.

Ok good to know about the GH and KH. Ahh thats what I thought the kit should include. Im on the right page then. I'll have a look tomorrow for a testing kit.

This is only a 34 liter (9 gallon) tank, so a group of neons which you could increase from six to 8 or 9, plus some suitable catfish like maybe a small group (meaning 6-7) of panda cories? Assuming the Borneo fish go back.

Wow thats a lot of fish in one tank!! 8-9 tetras and 6 panda cories, I didn't think that my tank could hold that many fish happily! Can you tell me a little about panda cories? For starters why them not Borneo catfish? And what do they need -such as water flow, light, food. Panda cory catfish -still algae eaters?? I will look it up too but it sounds like you have had a fair bit of experience with fish so sorry there are more questions!!

Would guppies work instead of the pandas?

Also I'm planning to take my Borneo back tomorrow evening (little nervous about it), any suggestions in what to say to them ( I bought them on Saturday (5 days by the time I take them back)

 

[Byron]

Wow thats a lot of fish in one tank!! 8-9 tetras and 6 panda cories, I didn't think that my tank could hold that many fish happily!

We are dealing with small fish, and if you are diligent with a 50% water change once every week, and don't overfeed, you should have no problems. The neons are not active fish. The panda cories do like to bumble around, but they remain small; they can attain around 2 inches in length, but usually (for reasons I can't fathom) they remain at or just over 1 inch. I have had a group for years, and have a few fry that managed to survive in the tank, and they never get larger for some reason.

Can you tell me a little about panda cories? For starters why them not Borneo catfish? And what do they need -such as water flow, light, food. Panda cory catfish -still algae eaters??

The Borneo catfish (Hillstream Loach) must have fairly fast water currents. They live in fast-flowing streams, clinging on to rocks, grazing the algae which grows in brighter light. Neons are completely opposite, needing quiet water, dim light. Cories do not eat algae, they have their own food requirements (sinking shrimp pellets, sinking veggie disks, etc.). They will appreciate the flow from your filter which should be sufficient. Panda cories, like neons, prefer cooler rather than warmer water, so a good match on temperature. You can keep the tank around the low to mid-70's F.
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/corydoras-panda/

Would guppies work instead of the pandas?

Yes and No. Panda cories are substrate level fish, and guppies are upper-level fish. All male guppies maybe, but with a female you will have fry, and dozens before long, and that is another problem.

Also I'm planning to take my Borneo back tomorrow evening (little nervous about it), any suggestions in what to say to them ( I bought them on Saturday (5 days by the time I take them back)

Explain that you were not aware of the requirements to properly keep this catfish, and you learned from the members on TFF. Print off this thread if you like. I certainly stand by my advice, which is why I put my name under it, and it agrees with the experts.

Byron.

 

[crunch7]

You can keep a female Betta instead. They are cool too if given adequate care.

 

[NickAu]

Female Bettas can be just as aggressive as the males.

 

[Woody781]

We are dealing with small fish, and if you are diligent with a 50% water change once every week, and don't overfeed, you should have no problems. The neons are not active fish. The panda cories do like to bumble around, but they remain small; they can attain around 2 inches in length, but usually (for reasons I can't fathom) they remain at or just over 1 inch. I have had a group for years, and have a few fry that managed to survive in the tank, and they never get larger for some reason.



The Borneo catfish (Hillstream Loach) must have fairly fast water currents. They live in fast-flowing streams, clinging on to rocks, grazing the algae which grows in brighter light. Neons are completely opposite, needing quiet water, dim light. Cories do not eat algae, they have their own food requirements (sinking shrimp pellets, sinking veggie disks, etc.). They will appreciate the flow from your filter which should be sufficient. Panda cories, like neons, prefer cooler rather than warmer water, so a good match on temperature. You can keep the tank around the low to mid-70's F.
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/corydoras-panda/



Yes and No. Panda cories are substrate level fish, and guppies are upper-level fish. All male guppies maybe, but with a female you will have fry, and dozens before long, and that is another problem.



Explain that you were not aware of the requirements to properly keep this catfish, and you learned from the members on TFF. Print off this thread if you like. I certainly stand by my advice, which is why I put my name under it, and it agrees with the experts.

Byron.

Well that didn't go as planned. They wouldn't take the suckers back