Fiddler Crabs

[grayshark1956]

I'll do whatever it takes to make my crabs happy,...the pet store insisted I NOT add instant ocean to my tank, they insisted on aquarium salt to benefit fish, I know SG for crabs is 1.005 to 1.010 so I am trying to determine if this salt will work because the store absolutely insisted on it instead of instant ocean! Does instant ocean have a higher salt content? it did not say on the box, the aquarium salt does not list ingredients either. I want to fix this before tomorrow, I'm having a diagnostic test in AM and want to make sure my crabs and fish are okay. I'm home if anyone wants to write back, thanks for listening again, Grayshark1956

 

[iliveinazoo]

I'll do whatever it takes to make my crabs happy,...the pet store insisted I NOT add instant ocean to my tank, they insisted on aquarium salt to benefit fish, I know SG for crabs is 1.005 to 1.010 so I am trying to determine if this salt will work because the store absolutely insisted on it instead of instant ocean! Does instant ocean have a higher salt content? it did not say on the box, the aquarium salt does not list ingredients either. I want to fix this before tomorrow, I'm having a diagnostic test in AM and want to make sure my crabs and fish are okay. I'm home if anyone wants to write back, thanks for listening again, Grayshark1956

They are saying not to add instant ocean (marine salt) becuase of your fresh water fish which is correct because freshwater fish can't live in Brackish water. To make Brackish water necessary for your crabs you need marine salt and instant ocean will fit the bill nicely.

Where did you get SG1.005 to SG1.010? They will benefit from higher salinities up to marine conditions, approx SG1.005 - 1.021 although I would say that they are likely to do better SG1.010+. check out the Wikipedia page which gives a fairly good description: http/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddler_crab

 

[grayshark1956]

I'll do whatever it takes to make my crabs happy,...the pet store insisted I NOT add instant ocean to my tank, they insisted on aquarium salt to benefit fish, I know SG for crabs is 1.005 to 1.010 so I am trying to determine if this salt will work because the store absolutely insisted on it instead of instant ocean! Does instant ocean have a higher salt content? it did not say on the box, the aquarium salt does not list ingredients either. I want to fix this before tomorrow, I'm having a diagnostic test in AM and want to make sure my crabs and fish are okay. I'm home if anyone wants to write back, thanks for listening again, Grayshark1956

They are saying not to add instant ocean (marine salt) becuase of your fresh water fish which is correct because freshwater fish can't live in Brackish water. To make Brackish water necessary for your crabs you need marine salt and instant ocean will fit the bill nicely.

Where did you get SG1.005 to SG1.010? They will benefit from higher salinities up to marine conditions, approx SG1.005 - 1.021 although I would say that they are likely to do better SG1.010+. check out the Wikipedia page which gives a fairly good description: http/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddler_crab

Oh, I'm so glad someone wrote! I found this info after spending a long time searching internet for types of salt and somewhere I found this maybe from a crab forum source...Now I've finally determined that instant ocean is a more concentrated form and several fish stores plus internet said use aquarium salt: its safer for fish and better for a lower brackish water tank, especially with crabs. I just got back from the pet store, bought some more crabs, thismorning removed more goldfish as they are making water cloudy in spite on new filter. It will take a while to notice a difference in the water clarity, but, I wish I could post a picture of the rock/land cave I spent hours putting together. Another update: WalMart had very few nice looking fish, no plants, no snails, no marine salt or aquarium salt. Their prices on some fish supplies were lower but I won't get fish there from others' advice. Petsmart had more knowledge about fish and aquariums than other stores. Now I'm having trouble reading my hydrometer, it floats in water, can't determine when and often to read it with or without water changes. Crabs are more fun than I imagined! Anymore you want to add about crabs or salt?

 

[nmonks]

They are wrong.

Where in the wild would crabs bathe in pools of pure sodium chloride solution? The answer is nowhere; they naturally dip into pools of brackish water or seawater. Hence, you use marine aquarium salt mix.

Cheers, Neale

the pet store insisted I NOT add instant ocean to my tank, they insisted on aquarium salt to benefit fish,

 

[grayshark1956]

They are wrong.

Where in the wild would crabs bathe in pools of pure sodium chloride solution? The answer is nowhere; they naturally dip into pools of brackish water or seawater. Hence, you use marine aquarium salt mix.

Cheers, Neale

the pet store insisted I NOT add instant ocean to my tank, they insisted on aquarium salt to benefit fish,

Sounds reasonable to me and I can do that except I need a precise balance for fish and crabs both. Really, the only answer here is to separate the fish from the fiddlers. Or, only have brackish fish, which would be easier on me. I see why crabs need marine salt and I see why fish have certain requirements depending on the fish. But, the salt was more controversial than I realized.

 

[grayshark1956]

They are wrong.

Where in the wild would crabs bathe in pools of pure sodium chloride solution? The answer is nowhere; they naturally dip into pools of brackish water or seawater. Hence, you use marine aquarium salt mix.

Cheers, Neale

the pet store insisted I NOT add instant ocean to my tank, they insisted on aquarium salt to benefit fish,

Hi Neale, thought you'd like to know the fish are fine, crabs are fine (I bought a few more, the store hardly had any left) and now I'm offering them different fish/crab food. Their new home is better than the store, they have a beautiful rock cave that they love! Tomorrow I'm going to get a screen cover so they can't escape. I'm going to study crabs more, do you have any?

 

[nmonks]

They are saying not to add instant ocean (marine salt) becuase of your fresh water fish which is correct because freshwater fish can't live in Brackish water. To make Brackish water necessary for your crabs you need marine salt and instant ocean will fit the bill nicely.

iliveinazoo is quite right here. Whether you use tonic/aquarium salt or marine salt mix, if you add enough salt to make the Fiddlers healthy in the long run, you'll make the freshwater fish sick or dead. There's nothing magical about tonic/aquarium salt; it's just that at the "teaspoon per gallon" levels the store likely recommends, the resulting water won't be salty enough to stress freshwater fish. But neither will it be salty enough to be brackish water, and consequently not salty enough for the long-term care of brackish water animals like Fiddlers.

There are some freshwater fish that can live in low-end brackish water (SG 1.003-1.005) perfectly well including Guppies and Mollies, as well as numerous brackish water species not always sold as such, like Knight Gobies and Violet Gobies, so you may want to look at these for stocking the Fiddler Crab aquarium (though some, like Knight Gobies, will be too predatory to keep with small fish like Guppies).

Cheers, Neale

 

[grayshark1956]

They are saying not to add instant ocean (marine salt) becuase of your fresh water fish which is correct because freshwater fish can't live in Brackish water. To make Brackish water necessary for your crabs you need marine salt and instant ocean will fit the bill nicely.

iliveinazoo is quite right here. Whether you use tonic/aquarium salt or marine salt mix, if you add enough salt to make the Fiddlers healthy in the long run, you'll make the freshwater fish sick or dead. There's nothing magical about tonic/aquarium salt; it's just that at the "teaspoon per gallon" levels the store likely recommends, the resulting water won't be salty enough to stress freshwater fish. But neither will it be salty enough to be brackish water, and consequently not salty enough for the long-term care of brackish water animals like Fiddlers.

There are some freshwater fish that can live in low-end brackish water (SG 1.003-1.005) perfectly well including Guppies and Mollies, as well as numerous brackish water species not always sold as such, like Knight Gobies and Violet Gobies, so you may want to look at these for stocking the Fiddler Crab aquarium (though some, like Knight Gobies, will be too predatory to keep with small fish like Guppies).

Thanks for explaining even more, I agree, since I can't start a new aquarium right now I will get some gobies, and the mix of salts I understand. When I get back from my diagnostic test today I have to clean entire tank: water is cloudy white. I also have to get some screen for the top (stores don't sell tank lids with screen) I also have to learn how to read darn hydrometer and check pH. I also don't know why my tank is cloudy! I've done partial water changes, added dechlorinated water, some ammonia, removed most of goldfish (when I had 8 the water was not cloudy), have nre filter (will check on the height of it), have air pump, just can't figure this out! I did not add that much salt that water should be this cloudy, any ideas to fix it?
Cheers, Neale

 

[grayshark1956]

They are saying not to add instant ocean (marine salt) becuase of your fresh water fish which is correct because freshwater fish can't live in Brackish water. To make Brackish water necessary for your crabs you need marine salt and instant ocean will fit the bill nicely.

iliveinazoo is quite right here. Whether you use tonic/aquarium salt or marine salt mix, if you add enough salt to make the Fiddlers healthy in the long run, you'll make the freshwater fish sick or dead. There's nothing magical about tonic/aquarium salt; it's just that at the "teaspoon per gallon" levels the store likely recommends, the resulting water won't be salty enough to stress freshwater fish. But neither will it be salty enough to be brackish water, and consequently not salty enough for the long-term care of brackish water animals like Fiddlers.

There are some freshwater fish that can live in low-end brackish water (SG 1.003-1.005) perfectly well including Guppies and Mollies, as well as numerous brackish water species not always sold as such, like Knight Gobies and Violet Gobies, so you may want to look at these for stocking the Fiddler Crab aquarium (though some, like Knight Gobies, will be too predatory to keep with small fish like Guppies).

Thanks for explaining even more, I agree, since I can't start a new aquarium right now I will get some gobies, and the mix of salts I understand. When I get back from my diagnostic test today I have to clean entire tank: water is cloudy white. I also have to get some screen for the top (stores don't sell tank lids with screen) I also have to learn how to read darn hydrometer and check pH. I also don't know why my tank is cloudy! I've done partial water changes, added dechlorinated water, some ammonia, removed most of goldfish (when I had 8 the water was not cloudy), have nre filter (will check on the height of it), have air pump, just can't figure this out! I did not add that much salt that water should be this cloudy, any ideas to fix it?
Cheers, Neale

Forgot to mention I don't want to add anymore chemicals than I have to, the cloudiness is either because tank needs to be cleaned entirely or its from what little salt I added, I have not had this before, maybe its a bacteria bloom, but before when I cleaned tank, before having crabs, water was crystal clear. I'm going to check my filter, the box didn't give the greatest picture on how low to put it in the tank. Advice is alwatys appreciated and welcome.

 

[grayshark1956]

I just replied but don't see it on my screen....I have to look into fixing cloudiness of water today, plus get screen for top. I'm either going to clean the whole tank or start reading about bacteria! Can't do it now, I have to have a diagnostic test thismorning. Will check filter placement now, any advice is appreciated and welcome about cloudy water, its just white, no other color. All fish are acting fine, even my favorite betta! Thanks again for explaining.

 

[iliveinazoo]

Could be bacteria bloom. One of your earlier posts state that you are adding ammonia? High levels of waste such as ammonia will cause a bacteria bloom and burn the sensitive gills of your fish; in an uncycled tank a fish can die in days? You want no ammonia. What do you mean by cleaning the tank - you don't mean an entire strip-down do you? All you need to do is weekly water changes and scrape the algae off the glass with a tank scraper or a sponge, once a month you can rinse your filter media. If you have detectable levels of ammonia and nitrite then you will need to carry out large daily water changes until they are down to zero and remain at zero.

If you have a tank lid then you won't need an additional screen?

 

[grayshark1956]

Could be bacteria bloom. One of your earlier posts state that you are adding ammonia? High levels of waste such as ammonia will cause a bacteria bloom and burn the sensitive gills of your fish; in an uncycled tank a fish can die in days? You want no ammonia. What do you mean by cleaning the tank - you don't mean an entire strip-down do you? All you need to do is weekly water changes and scrape the algae off the glass with a tank scraper or a sponge, once a month you can rinse your filter media. If you have detectable levels of ammonia and nitrite then you will need to carry out large daily water changes until they are down to zero and remain at zero.

If you have a tank lid then you won't need an additional screen?

Yes, it must have been bacteria bloom, no I'm not adding ammonia, I added Ammonia Safe. I just cleaned the whole tank, had to, cloudiness was worse, the weekly water changes didn't work and I have no algae. I always clean inside of tank to remove clear slime, and the suction tank cleaner (cheap one) is not working, will return it and find something better. The lid I had was tupperware from a box and I had to cover tank because the other night a crab got out and I found him dead on the kitchen floor, so the tupperware lid was temporary until today when I got screen and made my own lid, stores don't sell just a screened lid by itself. When I returned the crab I got another one plus 2 more and they still love their rock/land cave that I spent an hour putting together. Could not get marine salt today due to a diagnostic test thismorning, I felt good enough to go to hardware store, 5 minutes away, to get the screen. SO, now the tank is crystal clear and I added a very small amount of aquarium salt that the store insisted I use. I did read late last night that marine salt is more concentrated, stronger, and it is meant for a saltwater reef-type tank. I know crabs need calcium and minerals, and also read somewhere that crabs will be fine with aquarium salt. I will still study brackish water and will look for gobies. And I always add de-chlorinator/water conditioner when I do entire tank change with fresh water. Keep in touch and if you think of anything I missed, let me know. Thanks

 

[iliveinazoo]

Marine salt is not "stronger" than aquarium salt, marine salt has the necessary elements to support marine/brackish life, aquarium salt does not.

In nature Brackish water is encountered where the sea meets a river, the sea is salty, the river is not. If we start in the sea then we are at marine conditions, say SG1.022, as we enter the mouth of the river the sea water is "diluted", we then travel further into the river and the sea water is diluted further still, steadily decreasing, i.e. SG1.021-SG1.020....SG1.015-SG1.014...SG1.008-SG1.007....SG1.001-SG1.000.
SG1.000 is freshwater.

You can see from the above that at no time does the "marine" salt disappear and change into "aquarium" salt. If you want a Brackish tank add marine salt, if you want a reef tank add more marine salt.

Have you cycled your tank? If you haven't that may be why you have the bacteria bloom. You don't need to add ammonia safe if you have a cycled tank, you only need to add a tap water dechlorinater.

 

[grayshark1956]

Marine salt is not "stronger" than aquarium salt, marine salt has the necessary elements to support marine/brackish life, aquarium salt does not.

In nature Brackish water is encountered where the sea meets a river, the sea is salty, the river is not. If we start in the sea then we are at marine conditions, say SG1.022, as we enter the mouth of the river the sea water is "diluted", we then travel further into the river and the sea water is diluted further still, steadily decreasing, i.e. SG1.021-SG1.020....SG1.015-SG1.014...SG1.008-SG1.007....SG1.001-SG1.000.
SG1.000 is freshwater.

You can see from the above that at no time does the "marine" salt disappear and change into "aquarium" salt. If you want a Brackish tank add marine salt, if you want a reef tank add more marine salt.

Have you cycled your tank? If you haven't that may be why you have the bacteria bloom. You don't need to add ammonia safe if you have a cycled tank, you only need to add a tap water dechlorinater.

I knew marine salt does not disappear then change into aquarium salt. I know crabs need minerals to help with moulting, calcium. I just wish the store had explained them more, and I did ask. I bought the Ammonia Safe because I had too many goldfish which I donated and read they give off ammonia and are dirty fish, I guess crabs are dirty, too, but, to get back to salt I had researched it so long and kept finding conflicting answers between marine salt (instant ocean?) and aquarium salt. Two stores insisted I use aquarium salt and one said they never add salt to their crab tank, again, I had no choice but to ask for opinions from brackish tank owners, hope you see I'm really trying to take care of my crabs and I probably spent $75 on food, plants, filter, hydrometer, caves, air stone, ceramic shark decoration, tank lid, salt, ammonia safe, dechlorinator, oh and a suction tank cleaner that does not work well at all. I'm tired, mowed grass tonight, got up too early and my dogs are waiting for their nightly walk then treats, doing chores, etc. I am glad you wrote, I'm very careful about what I add to my tank, I am so pleased with my fish and crabs, its a nice hobby for me. Write anytime.

 

[grayshark1956]

About RCC's I got the water problem solved- will use natural sea salt as I read that instant ocean is not necessary, the type of salt I have is adequate. Will again look into it later when I have more time.