Female Endlers

[DeanoL83]

Hi, just wondering how important the type of female endler is when breeding endlers?

I know there are many types of male endlers as they look very different, but how do you tell female endlers apart?

I currently have black bar endlers. If I wanted to get a different type of male endler, do I need a new female too, or could he breed with the female I currently have and keep his genes pure?

If the females are important how on earth do you tell them apart as they are all full silver colours lol

Thanks for any help!

 

[Paradise3]

Hi, just wondering how important the type of female endler is when breeding endlers?

I know there are many types of male endlers as they look very different, but how do you tell female endlers apart?

I currently have black bar endlers. If I wanted to get a different type of male endler, do I need a new female too, or could he breed with the female I currently have and keep his genes pure?

If the females are important how on earth do you tell them apart as they are all full silver colours lol

Thanks for any help!

 
Since Black Bar Endlers are specific hybrids of Guppy x Endler already the female Endler doesn't particularly matter but if you wanted to keep his lines as pure as is possible, a female pure Endler would be good.

There are no true Endler morphs, the only 100% Pure Endlers are the wild ones, anything else - for example, Black Bars, Tigers, Scarlet(which I have) - are specific line bred hybrids

 

[Essjay]

I have found in the past that it doesn't matter what the parentage of the female is, all the male fry look like their father. Since all shop bought endlers are hybrids anyway as Paradise says, it doesn't make any difference if you breed a female black bar with a male of another colour type.

 

[DeanoL83]

Thanks for that, that's what I was thinking too.

So for new fry, 100% of their patterns and colours come from the Father? None of the females genes make a difference??

 

[Essjay]

I had a couple of pattern types. I kept the males in one tank and the females in another, and separated the male fry when they showed signs of being male. So I knew the female fry were not carrying sperm when they matured. Selecting a male to mate with a couple of females that were from a different patterned father always gave male fry that grew up to look like their father, no blending of colours from the father and the mother's father.
The idea was to produce males with a blend of the various patterns I had but it didn't work so I just put them all in the same tank.

 

[Paradise3]

I've never experienced this? Lol. I have a current "experiment" going on at the moment. I keep Scarlet and Snakeskin Endler males, but my females are the huge Guppy females. I have a range of colours on the females(three are in QT at the moment though after a white spot outbreak literally days after buying them) so hoping to get the Scarlet and Snakeskin mixing in with those colours and coming through nicely on the males(and possibly females) that result.
 
My females are
1x Blue Delta - Or a similar variant, her tail isn't normal shaped, it fits that of a Delta but I know she's not specifically bred to be a Delta.
1x Black Tailed - Nothing new here, just a half black female guppy lol.
1x Red/Orange/Pink Tailed - A mixture of colours, very vibrant with a decent tail size.
1x Spotty Yellow Tailed - Kind of describes it all.. She was homebred by me in early 2009/2010 so she's 5/6 years old now.
1x Indescribable Female - She is very bland, a little bit of yellow blushing on her tail and a few little spots but nothing much other than that.
 
Do you think this experiment will work or am I going down the wrong road?
 
I do have another blue tailed female but she's not in the plan as she seems infertile and seem's like she's not going to be here much longer. She's skinny but still seems to act healthy, she eats well, etc. she just can't get pregnant and is starting to look like her age is catching up to her - I have no idea how old she is but I know she's HIGHLY inbred as the tank she was in was just left to breed and breed.

 

[Essjay]

My endlers may have been hybrids but the females were all grey, no trace of colour on them at all. Since your females do have colour on them, the results may be different from mine.

 

[Paradise3]

My endlers may have been hybrids but the females were all grey, no trace of colour on them at all. Since your females do have colour on them, the results may be different from mine.

 
Ahh, thanks for that I just know in the past that my fry from different guppies over the years have been a mixture of colours from both parents

 

[DeanoL83]

Is the any difference using female guppies verses female endlers?

Essjay is using female endlers while paradise, you're using female guppies which have more colours.

 

[Paradise3]

Is the any difference using female guppies verses female endlers?

Essjay is using female endlers while paradise, you're using female guppies which have more colours.

 
One of my female Guppies looks like a female Endler with a tiny bit of colour She's practically plain.

There's no difference apart from guppies would hybridize more though if you're already using hybrids is there any point trying to keep them pure? Lol.

 

[Essjay]

All endlers bought in shops are endler-guppy hybrids. The only way to obtain pure bred endlers is from a specialist breeder who has their pedigree all the way back to the wild.
 
Deano, if you bought your endlers from a shop they will be endler-guppy hybrids, and quite possibly have different endler patterns in their ancestry. Your black bars will have goodness-knows-what in their ancestry so breeding them with males of a different colour pattern won't 'weaken the strain'. Just as long as you don't try to pass off any fry as pure bred (not that you would).

 

[fish48]

pure endler 
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/424315-true-endlers-collected-this-year-at-cumana/

 

[Paradise3]

pure endler 
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/424315-true-endlers-collected-this-year-at-cumana/

 
If that's in reference to my "There are no true Endler morphs" you'll also find that in that same sentence I put the only true pure endlers are the wild ones. Since those are wild, they fit in that category. When speaking of morphs I mean the ones bred in captivity like the ones I specified - Tigers, Black Bars, Scarlets, Snakeskins, etc..

 

[fish48]

no it's to show what a true endler look like lol.
 
blue star endler a nice looking fish hard to get good pic.

 

[Paradise3]

no it's to show what a true endler look like lol.
 
blue star endler a nice looking fish hard to get good pic.

 
Those that you linked to are a "morph" of wild endler. I quote from that exact thread.
 

Just ordered these beauties of TRUE endlers collected from the wild just this year and the only naturally occurring metallic morph.

 
The wild "Normal" Endlers are pretty colourful really

 
This was one of my "pure" Endlers from a breeder who had apparently bred them from imported wild stock. Though I only have his word for it so I can't be sure they were 100% pure but they are pretty close to some of the wild Endler photo's I have seen

Please, please excuse the quality and tiny size of this image. It's the only one I have left and it was cropped long a go. I can't remember for what reason either

 

 
I do like Blue Star's though and one day when I can dedicate a tank to pure Endlers I will spend the money to get some wild stock going