dissect it and check the fat content. I mean this is one of the worse ways to verify the overall health of a fish. Talk about mis-information.
Feeding Cichlids and other fish meat
- Thread starter itiwhetu
- Start date
OP
OP
What do you mean?
OP
OP
These are other fish that I fed like this
OP
OP
I have thought about this, and I do know what you mean. You obviously continually dissect your fish to check that their diet is correct. For me, a prefer them to be swimming in the tank.
It's very dramatic to say we all suggest your fish will die because of their diet. Drama's fun and straw man arguments are effective.
But your fish can stay alive and still eat a third rate diet, and that's not the goal of any aquarist I've met when they look at their fish. There's a multi-million dollar industry designing fish foods, and while I don't buy all their claims either, and have no brand loyalties when I do feed prepared foods (I cultivate live foods as staples for my fish, based on their dietary needs), I do buy their research. There's big money in aquaculture, and not a cow in sight.
if you dissect them (you're right about that at least, that kills them...) you won't find fatty deposits. They are unable to digest mammal fats and most of the meat passes right through, providing no nutrition. They'll pull some from the leaner bits, and they should survive. Give them enough, and they'll look good, though the fat will go into the water.
As is often the case in your postings, you're doing something from back in the days of that old fraudster Herbert Axelrod. 50 years ago, it was an experiment. It failed, and people went looking for better ideas. They found them.
Raw meat moved to heart meat by the 1960s, then as transportation networks developed, fresh fish (easily digested by other fish) replaced heart meat in the homemade recipes. Shrimp is now sometimes used when it's on sale, and white fish flesh (not as oily as say salmon) is a great idea for fish like discus. A lot of aquarists make their own foods - I have a stick blender out in a drawer in the fish area, and it has some kilometres on it. I've moved away from keeping Cichlids large enough to profit from such foods, but fish, shrimp, pureed carrots, mild paprika, pureed peas, gelatin to bind - those old recipes work very well.
They are old recipes though. You are one of the last holdouts with an approach tried and rejected when people were waiting for the newest Beatles record to come out. You give really contrarian advice, and it worries me that new members will think you are offering a healthy alternative for your fish.
Oh, for the younger members - Axelrod was the head of a fish and pet publishing empire. He was prone to guesses about this then fairly new hobby, and published info at a prodigious rate, with very little time to test it. Later in life, he ended up in jail for fraud. He was a spectacular self promoter who never let the truth get in the way of selling a book or magazine.
But your fish can stay alive and still eat a third rate diet, and that's not the goal of any aquarist I've met when they look at their fish. There's a multi-million dollar industry designing fish foods, and while I don't buy all their claims either, and have no brand loyalties when I do feed prepared foods (I cultivate live foods as staples for my fish, based on their dietary needs), I do buy their research. There's big money in aquaculture, and not a cow in sight.
if you dissect them (you're right about that at least, that kills them...) you won't find fatty deposits. They are unable to digest mammal fats and most of the meat passes right through, providing no nutrition. They'll pull some from the leaner bits, and they should survive. Give them enough, and they'll look good, though the fat will go into the water.
As is often the case in your postings, you're doing something from back in the days of that old fraudster Herbert Axelrod. 50 years ago, it was an experiment. It failed, and people went looking for better ideas. They found them.
Raw meat moved to heart meat by the 1960s, then as transportation networks developed, fresh fish (easily digested by other fish) replaced heart meat in the homemade recipes. Shrimp is now sometimes used when it's on sale, and white fish flesh (not as oily as say salmon) is a great idea for fish like discus. A lot of aquarists make their own foods - I have a stick blender out in a drawer in the fish area, and it has some kilometres on it. I've moved away from keeping Cichlids large enough to profit from such foods, but fish, shrimp, pureed carrots, mild paprika, pureed peas, gelatin to bind - those old recipes work very well.
They are old recipes though. You are one of the last holdouts with an approach tried and rejected when people were waiting for the newest Beatles record to come out. You give really contrarian advice, and it worries me that new members will think you are offering a healthy alternative for your fish.
Oh, for the younger members - Axelrod was the head of a fish and pet publishing empire. He was prone to guesses about this then fairly new hobby, and published info at a prodigious rate, with very little time to test it. Later in life, he ended up in jail for fraud. He was a spectacular self promoter who never let the truth get in the way of selling a book or magazine.
Is this an old fish keepers myth then ? I have heard of feeding beef heart for years and until just now have never heard anything bad about this practice. I had piranhas on two occasions and fed them beef heart. They devoured it with relish and thrived while I had them.
Heart is the only meat lean enough to work. It was used as a substitute for better foods in the days before inland people could get fresh fish or seafood. It was a very cleaver improvisation, but somehow, it became an article of faith for many in the hobby.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
One of the more respected names in the hobby among those who have Ph.D. degrees in topics related to fish keeping and who is on the list of speakers at many weekend fish events says that one should never ever feed beefheart to any fish. I do not and did not when I had discus.
As for typical commercial fish foods I try to keep their use to a minimum. I read ingredient lists.
Everybody has to make their own decisions and I made the one not to feed land animals to my fish unless these were a part of their diet in the wild. I have never kept piranahs but I am pretty sure none of the fish I keep normally have meat from land animals on their diet.
Here is the ingredient list for one of my primary foods for many of my fish which normally eat meat as a big part of their diet:
edited to replace the commas in Ph,D, with periods Ph.D. and fix a grammar issue.
As for typical commercial fish foods I try to keep their use to a minimum. I read ingredient lists.
Everybody has to make their own decisions and I made the one not to feed land animals to my fish unless these were a part of their diet in the wild. I have never kept piranahs but I am pretty sure none of the fish I keep normally have meat from land animals on their diet.
Here is the ingredient list for one of my primary foods for many of my fish which normally eat meat as a big part of their diet:
edited to replace the commas in Ph,D, with periods Ph.D. and fix a grammar issue.
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I think we've probably made our points.
One guy has his methods and is welcome to stick with them. He doesn't need us to say otherwise, that's for sure.
The disagreement comes when you advocate risky and potentially harmful diets to creatures in your charge. I'm all for improvisation - the last time I had to get dog dewormer into my fish to fight Camallanus nematodes, I made a paste of tinned tuna (in water). It worked. Would I advocate that as a good everyday diet. Certainly not.
One guy has his methods and is welcome to stick with them. He doesn't need us to say otherwise, that's for sure.
The disagreement comes when you advocate risky and potentially harmful diets to creatures in your charge. I'm all for improvisation - the last time I had to get dog dewormer into my fish to fight Camallanus nematodes, I made a paste of tinned tuna (in water). It worked. Would I advocate that as a good everyday diet. Certainly not.
This is the one aspect i disagree with; as I am not a purist. Fishes don't eat land animals because normally land animals ('cept bugs) are not easily found in their habitat. I am not oppose to feeding land animals but i respect people who study fishes and determine what is and is not healthy for them. Er study in the scientific sense. If meat was actually healthy for fishes i would not be oppose to feeding it to them but i've read enough studies and articles to understand it does not make a good diet. HOWEVER my understanding is that egg yolk is healthy for many species of fishes and that is of course a 'land' thing....
I do have a question - is raw shrimp good for cichlids and loaches (clown and similar). Some folks have recommended such but i'm not sure of the healthy value.
OP
OP
I am willing to learn always. What is the preferred diet for my Discus, considering what I am doing is so harmful to them?
As long as they aren't vegetarian cichlids like Tropheus, raw prawn/ shrimp is fine. However, if you have pet shrimp in the tank, then use cooked prawn/ shrimp to stop any diseases from potentially getting into the tank and infecting your shrimp.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
Shrimp is pricey. I have fish that would/should eat it, but I do not feed it. A lot of what we feed depends on a number of factors not a part of this thread. But I think they are still relevant. Cost is one factor. How many tanks we have, how many different diets we might have to feed different fish and whether we are breeding fish so we need fry food as well. Finally space may also be a consideration.
A lot of fish in the wild eat live food. I wonder how many here feed this.
I am not asking for responses for any of what I wrote, I was just offering some food for thought
A lot of fish in the wild eat live food. I wonder how many here feed this.
I am not asking for responses for any of what I wrote, I was just offering some food for thought
I'm not disagreeing. I was just looking for a something 'yummy' for temporary encouragement. I do occasionally hatch bbs when i have a fussy fish i need to encourage to eat. However for larger fishes bbs isn't much useShrimp is pricey. I have fish that would/should eat it, but I do not feed it. A lot of what we feed depends on a number of factors not a part of this thread. But I think they are still relevant. Cost is one factor. How many tanks we have, how many different diets we might have to feed different fish and whether we are breeding fish so we need fry food as well. Finally space may also be a consideration.
A lot of fish in the wild eat live food. I wonder how many here feed this.
I am not asking for responses for any of what I wrote, I was just offering some food for thought
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