Extremely confused- HELP

[Byron]

I agree with Colin here. I previously suggested aragonite which is the same thing but better as it is calcium and magnesium. Dolomite is also highly effective; I don't like it as a substrate because it is white, but it does work very well in the filter or next to it in a mesh bag as I described somewhere in one of your threads. Some years back our water pH here was below 5, and I had about half a cup of dolomite in the canister filter and the tank pH was stable at 6.4 for some six years before I moved and no longer needed to do this buffering. Coral, etc is calcium (I'm not aware magnesium is significant but will readily bow to that if mentioned).

As for the sodium bicarbonate, this is not safe to use. Dr. Stanley Weitzman wrote about this in an article in TFH in the 1990's I believe, and pointed out that it loses its buffering capability over time, and in any event is harmful to fish long-term. For similar reasons I would not use those linked products on my fish.

 

[Guppylover3x]

It's probably sodium bicarbonate (baking soda). Don't waste your time with any powders to buffer the pH. Get some limestone, shells, coral rubble or dead coral skeleton and put it in the tank or filter. Add a small bit and monitor the pH. If it is still not high enough after a week, add a bit more. Keep adding bits until you get the right pH.

Thanks for your reply Colin. Thanks for confirming I won’t bother getting any of these products. I’ve realised I’ve already got activated carbon in a small mesh bag after reading. The fluval spec I have is exactly what you described activated carbon I’ve checked the box. I’ll cut my media up so I can add this in the morning. The shells I would consider because these can just sit at the bottom of the tank and seem the simplest way forward. I’ll definitely look into this, which type would I need? I followed your advice and visited my LFS today (the one I usually buy my fish from). I had a good chat with one of the store colleagues who approached me with an iPad (this is how it’s done and sales are processed through this way to the till. She sold me the other four guppies that I already have, she told me their PH is around 6.5 in the tanks but they tell customers to aim for 7. Mine is at 6.8 at the moment, she told me not to bother increasing it. I am worried it isn’t very stable though and does drop occasionally, adding a few of the shells you recommend would be helpful. She did pick up the API ph buffer liquid of the shelf first but between us we read something around the dangers of increasing PH by 0.2% within 24 hours being harmful to the fish. This was labelled at the back of the bottle, do you know much about this solution? I asked her what she thought and if I should get it but even she said it sounds to complicated. This is probably one of the best store colleagues I have spoken too and she was young like myself, but very knowledgeable. We even discussed the minerals I use at the moment and she told me how every area has different acidity levels of the water so I knew she was talking sense. We then went onto discuss how she lived in a hard water area and I explained she was lucky! Not having to add anything into her tank. We then went onto discuss how neons love soft water. She also didn’t think it was a chemical problem in my tank because this would show up on the test strips, you may not agree with this. An interesting conversation at the most was around what happened to my fish yesterday. She thinks the stress of being netted when I acclimated him into the tank could have done it. I can’t say I disagree with this, I have never had any issue like this before when introducing them naturally (pouring them into the water). I can confirm I will follow your advice that you posted on my “best way to acclimate fish” thread. Your comment made the most sense and was similar to what I usually do. The only time it’s neccessary to do it any different is if there’s ammonia. I will be standing by this in future. This has never caused me problems before and a little shop water in the tank can’t hurt as much as people make out, if it does that’s what we are here for to change it and make sure it’s fine. Thank you very much for your help.

 

[Guppylover3x]

I agree with Colin here. I previously suggested aragonite which is the same thing but better as it is calcium and magnesium. Dolomite is also highly effective; I don't like it as a substrate because it is white, but it does work very well in the filter or next to it in a mesh bag as I described somewhere in one of your threads. Some years back our water pH here was below 5, and I had about half a cup of dolomite in the canister filter and the tank pH was stable at 6.4 for some six years before I moved and no longer needed to do this buffering. Coral, etc is calcium (I'm not aware magnesium is significant but will readily bow to that if mentioned).

As for the sodium bicarbonate, this is not safe to use. Dr. Stanley Weitzman wrote about this in an article in TFH in the 1990's I believe, and pointed out that it loses its buffering capability over time, and in any event is harmful to fish long-term. For similar reasons I would not use those linked products on my fish.

Thank you for your reply and also confirming. I won’t bother getting any of these products. I think the only way I could add aragonite is if I purchased a really small filter and added it in. I agree with you and wouldn’t want it as a substrate either, and even if this was an ideal option it would be a difficult process and stressful for the fish to remove the current gravel. Seen as though I’m aiming to add carbon into my current filter and halfing my current media so it all fits I think this would be my only option. Thanks for your time.

 

[Colin_T]

Please use paragraphs so it's easier to follow what has been written.

Shells, limestone, coral rubble, etc are all made from calcium carbonate. It doesn't matter which type you use, they are made from exactly the same stuff. They help to neutralise acids in the water and will buffer the pH without you having to add any other chemicals.

If you use shells, have the opening of the shell in the substrate to stop fish and food getting trapped in it. A piece of limestone is better than shell because there are no holes in it for fish and food to get stuck in.

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If you want to add aragonite or beach sand or some sort of calcareous substrate, get a shallow plastic container like an icecream bucket and trim the sides down so it is about 2 inches high. Put an inch of the aragonite in the container and put the container in the tank. Wash the aragonite before doing this.

Move the current substrate apart a bit and put the container with the aragonite in the tank. Move the old gravel up to the edge of the container but don't let them mix.

You can then gravel clean the aragonite and the normal substrate and not have to worry about them mixing.

--------------------------
There are heaps of chemicals that can be in tap water and the only chemicals pet shops normally test for are ammonia, nitrite & nitrate. Unless you get the water tested for all known chemicals, it is impossible to rule out chemical poisoning.
eg: copper, aluminium, lead, mercury, zinc, cadmium have all been found in tap water and pet shops don't have test kits for most of these (copper being the exception).

Having said this, I don't think it is was chemical poisoning. If the pet shop keeps the pH of their guppy tank at 6.5, and the guppies had only come in the day before you got them, I would say the fish died from stress associated with too many changes in water chemistry.

The supplier should have had their tanks around 7.0 (possibly higher).
The pet shop has their tank around 6.5.
Your tank is 6.8.

You move any fish into different water with these pH levels over a 24 hour period and it will stress out.

--------------------------
You DO NOT have to remove your filter media to use carbon. Just hang the bag of carbon in the tank near a filter outlet or use an air operated box filter for the carbon.

If you remove half of your filter media, you could have water quality problems like ammonia and nitrite building up. And considering your tank has just finished cycling, removing half the media now could cause problems.

 

[Guppylover3x]

Please use paragraphs so it's easier to follow what has been written.

Shells, limestone, coral rubble, etc are all made from calcium carbonate. It doesn't matter which type you use, they are made from exactly the same stuff. They help to neutralise acids in the water and will buffer the pH without you having to add any other chemicals.

If you use shells, have the opening of the shell in the substrate to stop fish and food getting trapped in it. A piece of limestone is better than shell because there are no holes in it for fish and food to get stuck in.

--------------------------
If you want to add aragonite or beach sand or some sort of calcareous substrate, get a shallow plastic container like an icecream bucket and trim the sides down so it is about 2 inches high. Put an inch of the aragonite in the container and put the container in the tank. Wash the aragonite before doing this.

Move the current substrate apart a bit and put the container with the aragonite in the tank. Move the old gravel up to the edge of the container but don't let them mix.

You can then gravel clean the aragonite and the normal substrate and not have to worry about them mixing.

--------------------------
There are heaps of chemicals that can be in tap water and the only chemicals pet shops normally test for are ammonia, nitrite & nitrate. Unless you get the water tested for all known chemicals, it is impossible to rule out chemical poisoning.
eg: copper, aluminium, lead, mercury, zinc, cadmium have all been found in tap water and pet shops don't have test kits for most of these (copper being the exception).

Having said this, I don't think it is was chemical poisoning. If the pet shop keeps the pH of their guppy tank at 6.5, and the guppies had only come in the day before you got them, I would say the fish died from stress associated with too many changes in water chemistry.

The supplier should have had their tanks around 7.0 (possibly higher).
The pet shop has their tank around 6.5.
Your tank is 6.8.

You move any fish into different water with these pH levels over a 24 hour period and it will stress out.

--------------------------
You DO NOT have to remove your filter media to use carbon. Just hang the bag of carbon in the tank near a filter outlet or use an air operated box filter for the carbon.

If you remove half of your filter media, you could have water quality problems like ammonia and nitrite building up. And considering your tank has just finished cycling, removing half the media now could cause problems.

I apologise I will paragraph my writing. I have purchased some beach shells that are stated to be aquarium safe. I forgot to clarify I went to the store I usually buy my fish from today it’s around a 20 minute drive away from where I live.

The store I bought the guppy from is more local by. Their guppies had been in a week other fish were new in stock and under quarantine. They hadn’t ordered any more guppies for this week because the tank was already fairly stocked. I only went back to my usual store today because this is usually where I purchase fish from and have always had a good experience.

However, I imagine their PH is quite similar to the other store and around 6.5.

I do agree that the water changes could have contributed though. I won’t add anymore fish in future when I’m carrying out more than one 75% change per week. I’m doing more this week due to one of my guppies having a nipped tail.


In relation to adding aragonite this seems like an alternative good option. Thank you for confirming that I can’t remove half of it. I would have had even more problems and that’s all I need. I have a small air operated shell ornament in my tank. I’ll just put the carbon bag at the side of it and leave it in my tank for two weeks. Then I at least know any chemicals have been removed if there are any in the water.

Thank you for your advice

 

[Guppylover3x]

Follow up - I added another fish to my tank today and all seems well so far fingers crossed. I did acclimate the new fish differently.

Maybe the carbon I added helped, and the less frequent water changes.

Thanks for all the help!