External Filters

[LisaLQ]

I dont cry about anything Andy, that was a little bit OTT just for the sake of bashing a filter, dont you think? Making out all non-Eheim owners to be tight arses who sob relentlessly because their filter doesn't work? Dont think so - I'm very happy with my FX5, it does a grand job - no crying in this house over a piece of machinery lol.

I've yet to find an Eheim for under £150 that will run a 6ft plec tank. If you can find them so cheaply, perhaps you could help me find one that'll run my 7ft set up when I get it going? I've not found one second hand that cheap - the only ones I can find are for piddly little tanks, not the big monsters.

If you look at the spec of an Eheim and a Fluval (or indeed any other non-Eheim brand), for a filter that will apparently run a certain sized tank (ie. an Eheim and a Tetratec that will cover a 50g tank) you'll see that the Eheim flow rate is very low compared, they're just not as powerful. I'd rather get as powerful as poss for my money as then I know it'll suck up the massive amount of waste my fish make.

Yes, price is an issue. I think they're vastly overpriced for a low flow rate filter. But if you say they're as fantastic as you think they are - I have a budget of £150 roughly for my 7ft tank - show me some Eheims that could cover that for that price. I'm not being sarcastic - I'm being serious - if you can find a filter that will run my tank for that price, as you say they're only £40 second hand, then let me know - I'll buy it then I'll decide if it's any good.

My current plan is either another FX5, or a Resun 280 Cyclone (no experience of them but they come with media and a UV steriliser built in - and a whopping 2800lph flow rate), or two or three Tetratec 1200s. If you can find an Eheim that does that for the same budget, let me know - if they're so good I'll be glad to have one. But from what I've read, they're no better than any other brand - after all, they only have to suck up sh*t - no need for all the snobbery

 

[Irf]

OK, now that we've all calmed down.......

The OP was asking about a filter for his Rio 240, right? Not for some teeny weeny tank, nor for a monster wazzo car-sized aquarium. So, what are his options and what is the general opinion on external filters for that size of tank?

Personally I don't know the capacity of it (240L?), so all I can refer to is the Eheim Ecco 2236 I just bought for my Duo Deep 1200 tank (210L approx, I think). It's lovely - quiet, masses of filter media included, very quick to set up (less than five mins). And I'm not an aquarium expert - only been in the game since April last year.

So all I can say is that this was good for me. And it cost around £60 I think mail order, when fish and fins were doing their Jan sale. Dunno if that is cheap or stupid money, but it was worth it for me to get away from the Fluval 4+ HOB filter included with my tank originally.

Hope that is of some help to someone.....

Irf.

 

[andywg]

A filter's prime job is to process nitrogenous waste, not circulate the water.

Check out the review of the FX5 against the similar sized Eheim. The Fluval had a high flow rate and could indeed remove more physical waste, but took an extra 2 days to process the ammonia put into the tank.

Essentially there is a choice: push around lots of ammonia, or have a slower flow rate and better processing. I myself would far rather have the ability to process the ammonia than a high flow rate.

I see all sorts of Eheims in my lfs, all at £40 except the larger Pro 2s (of which 2 at £60 would easily run a 7 foot tank). Just a matter of looking.

There is no snobbery, just I have experienced both and know that Eheims are more than worth the price. You haven't yet owned an Eheim and are basing your entire argument against Eheim on flow rate. There is far more to a filter than flow rate.

Not to mention price over time. I have already seen a couple of FX5s come back to an lfs broken due to Fluval's appaling build quality. I would happily pay twice as much for an Eheim that lasts four times as long. And the fluvals' higher turnover comes at a price - their pumps are more expensive in terms of GPH/W so cost more to run.

Just out of interest, where have you read that Eheim's are "just as good as any other brand"? I have never seen it written by serious aquarists who tend to say "spend your money and get good equipment sraight away". Only time I really see Eheim come second best in comparisons is when they are compared to Tunze products.

 

[LisaLQ]

Andy - have you got a 7ft plec or large waste producing fish tank? It's just I'd really like to know how you've gained your experience on that matter, if you've not had one. Forgive me if you have - I'm just asking - how can you assure me those Eheims will run my tank and keep it as clear as my FX5 does? I've got two 6ft tanks running on Fluvals, so I need some help here - if you have no direct experience, can you point me towards someone who does? On the plec boards, Fluval are rated very highly - but with others (including shop owners) rating the Tetratec just as highly. Flow rate is very important to those of us with some species of plecs who need a higher current and oxygen level - something the Fluval covers without any extra noisy equipment needed.

I've never had any ammonia in my tank, so dont know where you heard that from - where's the link so we can have a read? Many of the big tank owners I know run their tanks on FX5s, so I think it'd be more common knowledge if it were true. I guess it was written by someone who felt the need to ***** about Fluvals too, eh?

I know people who rate Tetratec over Eheim - both for price and function before they're also accused of being cheapskates. And another question - if I'm not allowed to comment on the quality of Eheim because I've not had one, can you tell me what direct experience you have with the FX5? Not internet horror stories, direct experience?

I've said anyhow - find me the filters to run my tank, delivered, with media, for the same price I can get Tetratecs or a Fluval for. I'll gladly road test them - and post my review afterwards.

 

[paul-discus]

I personally think that Eheims aftercare stinks and for that reason would not reccomend one even though they are good filters.

 

[andywg]

Andy - have you got a 7ft plec or large waste producing fish tank? It's just I'd really like to know how you've gained your experience on that matter, if you've not had one. Forgive me if you have - I'm just asking - how can you assure me those Eheims will run my tank and keep it as clear as my FX5 does? I've got two 6ft tanks running on Fluvals, so I need some help here - if you have no direct experience, can you point me towards someone who does? On the plec boards, Fluval are rated very highly - but with others (including shop owners) rating the Tetratec just as highly. Flow rate is very important to those of us with some species of plecs who need a higher current and oxygen level - something the Fluval covers without any extra noisy equipment needed.

I am afraid I don't own a 7 foot plec, and probably never will. I do have a 6x2x2 full of messy fish such as Chalceus, large pims and a couple of larger plecs (a sailfin and a royal variant each around the foot mark). A clear tank is not necessarily a clean tank as people with perfectly clear tanks with ammonia in will tell you.

However I prefer exceptional filtration so all this runs off a large trickle tower system into a dual sump set up. Naturally the return pump for the sump is Eheim. This is so efficient I haven't done a gravel vac in over 6 months as all the waste ends up in the filter floss.

As you ask, I will point you to CFC who had to change out all his fluvals as they failed on his tanks and he now runs all his tanks with extremely messy fish on eheims (with the exception of the largest tank which is supplemented by a pond filter). Ask him for his honest view on how good fluvals are compared to eheim. You should get a colourful response.

I've never had any ammonia in my tank, so dont know where you heard that from - where's the link so we can have a read? Many of the big tank owners I know run their tanks on FX5s, so I think it'd be more common knowledge if it were true. I guess it was written by someone who felt the need to ***** about Fluvals too, eh?

Here's the link: http/biotope.multiply.com/reviews/item/2

Interesting to note how the fluval achieves barely half of its stated flow rate compared to Eheims 71%. So much for Fluval's super flow rate. One thing to note with Eheim is their flow rates are optimum for when filled with media, not completely empty like fluval. That and the far noisier pump on the fluval makes me wonder whether you are getting too hung up on the flow rate of the filter. Also not that the eheim has dual intake so it can remove waste from two ends of the tank at once to help keep it clearer.

And in case no one wants to read the whole thing to find the ammonia test part:

The most important function of a filter is its biological filtration capacity and here is the best test for these filters. The clear winner here was the Eheim taking only 11 days to cycle the 700 litres of water from 4ppm of ammonia to Nitrate only vs the FX5's 13 days. It just shows that that extra 6 litres of bio media in the Eheim more then makes up for the 800 litres per hour flow advantage the Fluval has. a 2 day difference is quite significent and its more then we expected.

I know people who rate Tetratec over Eheim - both for price and function before they're also accused of being cheapskates. And another question - if I'm not allowed to comment on the quality of Eheim because I've not had one, can you tell me what direct experience you have with the FX5? Not internet horror stories, direct experience?

I've said anyhow - find me the filters to run my tank, delivered, with media, for the same price I can get Tetratecs or a Fluval for. I'll gladly road test them - and post my review afterwards.

I have no direct experience of the FX5, only noticing broken ones returned to the lfs and the lab report carried out in the link above. I do have experience of Fluval and Eheim as filter manufacturers, and have suffered (along with a number of others) leakage and disaster from Fluval. I have never usaed tetratec so cannot comment on them, and as such won't.

You won't get Eheim for the same price, unless you factor in running costs (the FX5 uses up just under double the electricity of the nearest eheim) because it is all a trade off. If you want the best you have to pay for it, though you will almost certainly save in the long run due to the longevity of eheim gear.

It's like Rover vs BMW, while the Rover may look ok and be nearly as good and cost less, it won't last as well.

 

[LisaLQ]

I can see I'm fighting a losing battle, against someone who obviously has far too much time on his hands lol. I chose the fluval because it works for me. I recommend it because it works for me. I've had it for well over a year now, sorry I dont have longer experience with it - but I've only been in fishkeeping that long!

No, we dont all have tonnes of money spare, but there's no need to make out that we should sell our bodies to keep up with the Joneses. And I didn't ask if you owned a 7ft plec, I asked if you owned a 7ft plec or large fish TANK.

So not only do you get a kick out of looking down on the commoner, you like to take the piss out of their grammar too. How adult. I'm glad I amuse you so much, it's always good to bring a smile to someone's face.

Naturally the return pump for the sump is Eheim.

Naturally

I'm obviously not a good fishkeeper if I can "only" afford £150 on a filter...incidentally, it'd be over double that just for the Eheims I'd need (£166 each for ones that run only 90g, so I'd need two minimum and it'd still be underfiltered) - without any media either. Fat chance. They might be good, but they cant be that good. Unless of course they come with an inbuilt gravel vac? Na...didn't think so...

 

[fry_lover]

There has been some reference to "clear" water in this thread, but surely its all about ammonia and nitrite? We dont get good filtration to achieve "clear" water surely, its the whats in the water thats most vital!!! Obviously dont like cloudy water LOL, but "clear" water means nothing to me, i want a filter that processes what it needs to process. I am in the process of looking for an external for my 180 litre tank.

I have read countless times on many forums that Eheim are "generally" better than Fluval, loads of Fluval horror stories, hardly any Eheim ones!!!!!

 

[Nina]

I'm obviously not a good fishkeeper if I can "only" afford £150 on a filter...incidentally, it'd be over double that just for the Eheims I'd need (£166 each for ones that run only 90g, so I'd need two minimum and it'd still be underfiltered) - without any media either. Fat chance. They might be good, but they cant be that good. Unless of course they come with an inbuilt gravel vac? Na...didn't think so...

I don't think anybody said you were a bad fish keeper for only being able to afford a filter priced at £150. What they have said though is that from their experience they would have to replace the fluvals after a couple of years which would then make the fluvals the more expensive option surely.

Also stated was the the ehiem filters are more reliable in the long run meaning that you can buy them second hand for a faction of the price of a new one and you can be confident that they will still work.

My LFS has a large second hand section and the number of returned fluvals which have been traded in is stupid. Often as soon as the ehiem filters hit the floor they have been scooped back up by customers.

You have, by your own admission, only been fish keeper for about a year and therefore you will find that most products will last at least a year or so before keeling over. See how the fluval is after a couple of years, hopefully it is still working but I feel that many people will not be surprised if you no longer have it or at the very least are having trouble with it.

To the OP - I would recommend that you take a look around, and if you have some where that sells second filters then go for the ehiems (don't forget eBay). if you don't have somewhere that sells second hand then just remember that everyone on here has a favorite and they will defend that to the death so sometimes you need to take what they say with a pinch of salt.

 

[LisaLQ]

Ok - let's let it go now - I can see the Eheim fans have back up, and my view isn't valid because I've only had my filter a year. So the fluval's sh*t folks - dont listen to me.

But to help the OP - I just want to make one comment. If you can afford new - get it - because second hand carries risks of adding diseases and your equipment failing on you. Been there, done that (had to make repairs - not the disease).

And no, it wasn't a fluval.

 

[CFC]

I have owned 2 fluvals, both broke down inside 48 months of use one of which blew a seal and dumped 60 gallons of brackish water onto the carpet and killed some of the fish and the other which was always a pain to restart and one day simply died for no reason at all.

I have 6 Eheim canisters running in my fishroom, all from the Classic range and all costing under £70 even when brand new, the oldest of these is a pair i bought from the lfs when they switched their marine tanks onto a centralised system and had been running on their tanks for around 7 years before i had them, they have now been running on my tanks for around 4 years and have not had so much as a impeller replaced in that time.
I have two others that i purchased new which i have been running for 6 years on my tanks.

i believe that Lateral Line has a couple of ehiems running which have been in service for over 20 years.

A pair of Eheim 2217s run my 6x2x2 which has some fish that make the waste that plecs make look like a fart, trust me when you have a fish that eats two 6" sprats a week and as many prawns and mussels as it can cram into its gob every other day you get a lot of nitrogenous waste out of the other end and thats just one catfish, the tank actually holds this list of large predatory fish. 1 australian arowana; 2 Potamotrygon orbygini stingrays; 3 Sorubim lima shovelnoses; 1 Hemisorubim platyrynchos; 1 Ornate bichir; 1Cephalosilurus nigricaudus and 1 Salminus maxilosus, not one of these fish is under 12 inches in length.



Another little known fact is that Eheim manufacture all the liquids pumps for the NASA space projects.

Make your own minds up people.

 

[cleekdaFish]

i have a eheim only for a day and its great Its well built on the outside


Canisters are my choice for tanks forty gallons or larger, especially for show tanks, as they can be completely concealed and not detract from the appearance of the aquarium. Because canister filters force the water through the filter media, they are particularly good at removing particulate matter. Some canister filters even have diatomic sleeves to allow for special filtering situations.
1) Eheim
Boasting a high throughput rate and durability, the Eheim is the quietest canister on the market. I like the compact design and easy to handle latches. My only complaint is the lack of self-priming, a common problem in canister filers. However, priming is vastly improved in the Ecco and Pro II series. Although pricier than other brands, I've found that over time Eheim out performs them.
Vendor's Site

2) Magnum
Magnum balances price with some of the best features in a canister. It is self-priming, quiet, and offers convertible filtration modes, including the option of adding a matching Biowheel system. The clear canister makes it easy to see the condition of the filter. Optional gravel cleaner is a nice perk to an all around great package.


3) Fluval
Fluval produces one of the most economic, yet efficient, multi-media filters available. Learning a lesson from their older models that were too tall and unwieldy to service, the redesigned models are compact, and sport larger latches similar to the Eheim products. Priming is still a headache, and they tend to be noisy if not properly filled. In spite of that, you can't go wrong with a Fluval.

4) Proquatics
If it weren't for the lack of performance data, this filter might rival Magnum and Fluval. The unit is built with the same top-notch features, such as self-priming, easily removed media basket, large easy to release latches, and top mounted swiveling flow controls. So far I've been very impressed with its performance.
Vendor's Site

5) Rena FilStar
Although less well known that other canisters, the FilStar has many of the same features. The self locking water shutoff system is a nice touch, and the price is very competitive with other canister filters of the same size.
Vendor's Site

6) ViaAqua
ViaAqua has moved beyond their popular powerheads and pumps and is offering a line of canister filters. Recessed handles, large media baskets, shut-off valves, in addition to low prices, make them highly competative with other canister filters.
Vendor's Site

 

[KathyM]

I saw a comparison recently of the Fluval FX5 and the Eheim equivalent which costs a lot more. There wasn't much in it, both were much of a muchness.

Never had a problem with Fluval's myself (including the FX5 which was great), although currently I'm running a Tetratec on the Rio 300 which is also great.

I was always advised by other fishkeepers that Eheim basically sells on the name, and that other brands (not necessarily Fluval) were as good and cost a lot less. So therefore I don't have experience of them and can't comment on how good or bad they are.

I'm currently looking at external filters for my smaller tanks, I'll prolly go with one of the older Fluvals as they're pretty good and you can get them easily 2nd hand and on a budget. If I see a 2nd hand Eheim I might try one if it's economical enough, and give it a whirl, but I've yet to be convinced to be honest - the prices put me off.

 

[xingumike]

I'm currently looking at external filters for my smaller tanks, I'll prolly go with one of the older Fluvals as they're pretty good and you can get them easily 2nd hand and on a budget. If I see a 2nd hand Eheim I might try one if it's economical enough, and give it a whirl, but I've yet to be convinced to be honest - the prices put me off.

Kathy, upgrade the hoses if ya running an older fluval have heard a few horror stories about hoses failing and dumping half the contents of the tank on the lounge floor in the night (ask mrwickedweasel it always happens at night!)

 

[The-Wolf]

If you head over to a forum for Keepers of Monster Fish ( ]v[ ) they ran a thread on how long people had had their oldest filters going and almost every single filter over 5 years was an Eheim, with a number getting into double figures. That is what you are paying for with Eheim.

andy I'd love to see that post on that forum
can you email me the link or tell me in chat
I'd be interested to see where Jebo/Lac come in the list, if at all