My fault Nix. I wasn't trying to make you look like a bad guy or anything like that. We were exchanging views in three different posts, so I coudn't quote you. In one reply you said that the jacks would kill each other, and the Jag would go crazy and kill everyone ect. This is on page 2 of this message board. I think the topic of my post was "Cluster of cichlids, or cichlid crazy". As a matter of fact, most people now a days would agree with you. But I'm from Wash.D.C. and we have the worst water in the country. When I was a kid my mom put a cichlid tank in my room because I was scared of the dark. It was a 10gal with 2 oscars and a red devil in it. This was long before the internet, and those fish lived for years in tap water. Our answer to everything was rinse the gravel, and it worked. All my life I've owned some sort of cichlid. But then came the information age, and now you have to cycle a tank for half a year before you can put a fish in, it's impossible for some species to live with others, hell I even bought a hospitol tank because 75gal was too exspensive to treat for desease,"it was so much cheaper to just rinse the gravel". I'm wondering if people try different things. Fail, and learn from it or are they just agreeing with you because they heard the same thing somewere else.