Enough filtration for 60 gallon tank?
- Thread starter Gourami36
- Start date
It may be far too much, or it may be way too little...it all depends upon the fish stocking, and if there are live plants.
Having said the obvious, and assuming this is the same tank as the other thread we have been discussing, it would help to mention here the intended fish species and numbers, and plants, so others will know what you are referencing.
It is the same tank. I am not really sure which fish to have anymore.
There will be these fish:
1 green phantom pleco
5-6 upside down catfish
6 or more corydoras sterbai
3 pearl gourami
6 or more of some type of schooling fish
Maybe some others
Plants include:
Amazon sword
Anacharis
Dwarf sagittaria
Anubias
Cabomba caroliniana
Myrio filigree
Water sprite
Water wisteria
Crypts
Vallisneria
The filter’s gph is adjustable.
For everyone's benefit, from the other thread here are the tank measurements (sorry, I forgot to mention this previously, and the length especially also factors in to the filter issue):
48 inches long 12 inches wide and 24 inches high
The Tidal 110 is way too much for this tank with the species mentioned. I recently had one of my 24-year old canisters spring a leak I could not find to fix, so rather than getting another canister--I will be moving within 2-3 months and my larger tanks (being the 5-foot 115g, 4-foot 90g and 4-foot 70g) will not be going with me due to space and structural support--I picked up an Aqueon QuietFlow Internal Power Filter, Model AT40. This is a superb filter for tanks in the 3 and 4-foot length range. It more than sufficed in my 70g, and I have used it in my 3-foot 33g tank as well. It provides sufficient water movement, and nothing more than good mechanical and some biological filtration. It has some carbon in the biological sponge part, but that will become ineffective anyway, and I have managed to shake some of it out during weekly rinsing under the tap as well. Something like this filter would suit your 60g nicely. I placed it in the left rear corner with the flow aimed into the end wall, and such that it gives a good surface turbulence at that end but not further down the tank (the surface is covered in Water Sprite floating plants anyway).
My 70g is an Amazonian stream aquascape, with some 50 corydoras all wild caught, and they are spawning all over the place.
48 inches long 12 inches wide and 24 inches high
The Tidal 110 is way too much for this tank with the species mentioned. I recently had one of my 24-year old canisters spring a leak I could not find to fix, so rather than getting another canister--I will be moving within 2-3 months and my larger tanks (being the 5-foot 115g, 4-foot 90g and 4-foot 70g) will not be going with me due to space and structural support--I picked up an Aqueon QuietFlow Internal Power Filter, Model AT40. This is a superb filter for tanks in the 3 and 4-foot length range. It more than sufficed in my 70g, and I have used it in my 3-foot 33g tank as well. It provides sufficient water movement, and nothing more than good mechanical and some biological filtration. It has some carbon in the biological sponge part, but that will become ineffective anyway, and I have managed to shake some of it out during weekly rinsing under the tap as well. Something like this filter would suit your 60g nicely. I placed it in the left rear corner with the flow aimed into the end wall, and such that it gives a good surface turbulence at that end but not further down the tank (the surface is covered in Water Sprite floating plants anyway).
My 70g is an Amazonian stream aquascape, with some 50 corydoras all wild caught, and they are spawning all over the place.
Which part is too much? I didn’t think I could overfilter and I thought 10x turnover rate was recommended. Are there any problems with too much filtration if the filter flow isn’t too strong for the fish? I already have the filter.
There is considerable misunderstanding in the hobby over filtration. Over-filtration is a myth because you cannot ever have more "filtration" than what the system supports no matter how many filters or how large the filters are, and once you go past the necessary "filter" you begin to work against benefit and promote detriment.
The current is a prime issue obviously, as fish have to live in this 24/7 and it needs to match their physiology or they will be stressed and prone to other health issues and a shorter lifespan. Imagine if you had to walk uphill continually, how much more energy it takes than walking on flat ground, and you could not stop to sleep. You woould wear out pretty fast. So do the fish.
Beyond the current, as I said above, there is only so much filtration a filter can deliver biologically, no matter how many or how large, and provided the filter initially is suited to the tank volume and fish species. Mechanical filtration (removing particulate matter to keep the water clear which is not the same as clean) is another aspect, but again there is a limit to what can be achieved and more is not better but could actually make things worse. Current factors in here too, obviously.
When you have live plants, and again depending upon the species and numbers, it reduces the need for biological filtration considerably. Too much of this can actually be detrimental to the plants.
This is why sponge filters are so beneficial and ideal in so many tanks. Minimal water movement, with very good but not excessive biological filtration. My 40g which is 36 by 18 inches footprint is well served by a dual sponge filter. But more active fish from flowing waters would need more.
The first paragraph is what I meant when I said “I thought I couldn’t overfilter”.
The filter’s flow rate can be adjusted to 20% of the maximum (450 gph) if I remember correctly.
The filter’s capacity is about 3.5 litres. It already came with a coarse sponge and some matrix for biological filtration. I plan to add a medium sponge, then some polyester filling. Also I will add some more matrix.
How does too much biological filtration harm plants? Can’t I just dose more nitrate from fertiliser?
How does too much mechanical filtration make things worse? Trapping detritus and becoming a “nitrate factory”? I usually rinse the media in tank water every water change and change the polyester filling every water change as well because it is only for polishing the water.
I am also using a sponge filter or maybe even 2 because of the reasons you listed. But they are not very good at mechanical filtration.
No.
First, aquatic plants prefer ammonium as their nitrogen. Studies have proven that they can take up nitrite and nitrate, but do not do so unless there is insufficient ammonium to balance the other nutrients and light intensity needed for photosynthesis. This is because the plants must convert the nitrite or nitrate back into ammonium in order to use it as a nutrient, and that takes extra energy so the plant only resorts to it out of desperation.
Second, nitrate is harmful to fish. It does not poison them as rapidly as ammonia and nitrite, but it does harm them the longer the exposure or the higher the concentration. Keeping nitrate as low as possible is important for fish health. I went into this with Dr. Neale Monks, who recommends nitrate never exceed 20 ppm, and notes that even at this level some fish can be affected seriously--cichlids for example. As to what nitrate does, he said it is primarily a case of overall weakening the fish, so it has more difficult carrying out normal aspects of its life, and over time this further stresses the fish, weakening the immune system, and making things worse thee longer it continues. A normal life span is next to impossible.
Third, we must always keep in mind that every substance added to the tank water is getting inside the fish. Water enters through every cell, getting into the bloodstream and internal organs, and in addition to what is going on in the gills. Here again it is a matter of weakening the fish the more we do this. Keeping all additives, from water conditioner to plant fertilizers to any other treatment as minimal as possible will always mean healthier fish. Nothing less should be the aim of every aquarist.
If the "too much" is just more pads/floss/foam, that is OK. What I was actually getting at was that with this usually comes more water movement, and this can actually stir things up more than it clears.
The detritus needs to be rinsed out regularly, which leads me to your next point...
Good. You can rinse the media under the tap if chlorine is all you have; with chloramine I might not. The chlorine is not going to kill off all the bacteria, that is another myth. I have been rinsing filters under the tap for 30 years, but I have never had ammonia or nitrite above zero (when I tested obviously). Live plants benefit here of course, and the more there are and the faster growing they are (floating being ideal for this) the better. Also, there is more bacteria in the substrate than in the filter anyway. The substrate is actually your most important part of the aquarium, the bed for the many species of bacteria.
Sponge filters are the best mechanical and biological filtration possible, provided they are in proportion to the tank's biological needs of course. This is actually the only filtration I use, whether it is an internal motorized sponge filter like the Aqueon I mentioned earlier, or the simple sponge connected to an air pump.
Ammonia and nitrite in my tank is always 0. I’m not sure how biological filtration harms plants, the bacteria will only grow to how much ammonia the fish produce? I do know about nitrate but I already keep it under 20 in all my tanks, most are heavily planted and nitrate is 0-5 ppm. I use feritiliser on all my tanks. They are ei though, so there are too many nutrients on purpose, then a water change to reset the levels. I also bought fertiliser that has less nitrate. Also I am going to do dry fertiliser so I can add no nitrate if that is necessary?
Several things here. Starting with the biological filtration and plants. With live plants, we should not be "encouraging" biological filtration because it could remove plant nutrients. Now, having said that, studies have shown that plants can take up ammonia faster than the AOB (ammonia oxidizxing bacteria). Add another twist to this...in established tanks there is now thinking that AOB are not the nitrifiers but it is another organism, AOA (ammonia oxidizing archaea).
Ammonia occurs from fish but also the breakdown of organics primarily in the substrate. This is also the principal source of carbon (CO2) for plants (in low-tech or natural method planted tanks). It is better to let the plants do their thing, and keep our meddling with "filters" in the background.
Nitrate at 0-5 is ideal. My tanks all run in this range, and have for more than 10 years now. That is stability, and that is what leads to healthy tanks and fish.
I won't use or advocate EI as this can be harmful to fish. This is now being proven in studies. CO2 diffusion is similar. Al of these things are best done in plant-only tanks.
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