Endangered Fish

[rassy]

Hi, I'm new here and I am not sure I am posting in the right forum.

I have an endangered fish question.

Firstly, to make a long story short, I'm an amateur fish hobbyist and have two aquariums. My 25 gallon for 2 years and my 40 gallon for almost a year now. Once I sucessfully bred bettas, but it's such a weird story that it can be saved for another topic. Anyhow, when I wanted to start my 40 gallon, I decided I wanted Giant Danios and prepared for that. When I went to buy them, they were in a tank with rainbows at the store and, since I (and apparently whoever scooped out my fish) didn't know any better , I ended up with giant danios and some rainbow fish at home. I had ended up with 2 G. Danios, 1 Australian rainbow and 2 Bosemani rainbows. Instead of returning the rainbows, I just went out and got a few more G. Danios and made sure they were danios before I paid LOL Anyhow, I do research my fish and I never came across any information that Bosemani Rainbows are an endangered species. Until today.... I was trying to research if Bosemani's can be bred because I have a male and a female.

I've read before that one should never buy an endangered fish and one could get in big trouble for possessing an endangered fish although the fish police have never been to my door. I did check and the bosemani's are listed. Well, I'm not worried about getting in any sort of trouble, either way, but the general advice about coming across an endangered fish is not to buy it. Well, on the one hand, that makes sense because you wouldn't want some amateur (such as myself) to kill it due to innocent ignorance. But at the same time, I have come across alot of places that sell fish that have absolutely no idea what they're talking about sometimes. Which is why I always research my fish.

So, just out of curiosity, what happens if you come across an endangered fish in some store, and you know you can properly care for it, yet you also know that the store it's at is not properly caring for it? Do you buy it to save it, or do you leave it be because you shouldn't buy it, but then it might die anyways, either in the store or sold to someone who doesn't know any better? Is there some sort of protocol one should follow with endangered fish? I was just thinking abt this because, although I have never come across any endangered fish, that I know of, whilst "window" shopping, I have come across alot of places where the fish aren't kept properly - ie: brackish water fish being sold from freshwater tanks. with no mention they need brackish water. Personally, I think if I ever came across this situation and I could care for the fish properly, I might like to 'save' it, thinking no one would ever know anyways.

What is really the proper way to handle that sort of situation, though? And what should I do, if anything, now that I know I have endangered fish? It's strange, though, because the site I read that they were enangered on and mentioned advice not to buy endangered fish, went on to describe what great fish they were to have

 

[Colin_T]

If you could post the site where you saw the M. boesemani as endangered I would like to see it
You can also post a pic of the rainbows and I will tell you if they are male or female and what type the Australian one is.
Melanotaenia boesemani might be endangered in the wild but they aren't in captivity so don't worry about it. They are really easy to breed and extremely prolific. Adult females can produce hundreds of eggs every week and will breed continuously for months at a time.
The only reason I would consider boesemani as endangered in the wild is because they only come from one lake in Irian Jaya (West Papua) on the north western side of New Guinea. That area is held by the Indonesian government who are settling thousands of their people there and the land is being cleared for housing and strip mined for minerals. Although the Lake that boesemani comes from is difficult to get to the Indonesians will eventually overrun that area too and then the fish will probably disappear from the wild. In the mean time there are dozens of other rainbowfishes from New Guinea that are in exactly the same circumstances and will no doubtedly become extinct due to habitat destruction and chemical poisoning from the mining activities in the area.
more info on rainbowfish can be obtained from

angfa.org.au

or

[URL="http/members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Melano.htm"]http/members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Melano.htm[/URL]

If I find a rare fish for sale in the shops and I know I can keep it alive and breed it, I buy it and do just that. If it is a species that I have no experience with, or am unable to breed I leave them be.

 

[rassy]

The site I found the information at is here.

The endangered bit in found under "general Information" and has a link to the endangered list. It basically says what you just mentioned, about Irian Jaya. That makes sense, the difference between wild and captive/bred fish, actually. I guess maybe the site I found was a little misleading, or not as clear cut as they should be. Else I am a real ditz for not knowing the difference LOL The picture there looks exactly the same as my fish, well, the one I assume is the male anyway. The other one I have has way less yellow and is shaped slightly differently. I'm not sure if that one showed up in any of my pics.

I shall return with some pics, if I got any good shots, after I make them smaller in file size LOL

 

[rassy]

If I do this right... (I've never actually linked to pics before but can't find an option to upload them here)

My first pic is of one of my Bosemani Rainbow (whom I assume is the male), a Giant Danio and and Australian Rainbow

This pic is my Bosemani and I think what I assume is the female Bosemani, although not sure because my camera likes to play colour tricks on me sometimes.

Here's another pic of what I assume might be the female Bosemani, although yet again, the colour seems to be off than what I see with my naked eye. To me she seems darker and there seems to be more of that yellowish-green colour in the pic than I normally see. This must be it, though, because this is definitely not a Danio or an Australian Rainbow LOL

 

[Colin_T]

The info on the link is a bit off and could do with some updating. It is correct in saying that some fish are being taken from the wild but it is only males that are taken because females aren't as colourful. The females get thrown back, eaten or dumped on the river banks. The same thing is happening with Glossolepis incisus. The red males are kept for the aquarium trade while the bronze females are left.
There are a lot of them being bred in Asia now and if the shops are selling tanks of large adult males, then they are probably wild caught. If they have tanks of young fish or tanks with males and females in, then they are probably captive bred.
As to how the LFS managed to give you 3 rainbowfish instead of giant danios absolutely baffles me. They look completely different

The first pic shows a lovely young male boesemani with a giant danio and what looks like a Melanotaenia splendida splendida (eastern rainbowfish).
The second pic shows the male boesemani above and not sure about the fish under him
The third pic is a nice young female boesemani. So you have a pair plus an Aussie.

Male boesemani will stay blue & yellow/orange while females remain speckled like the bottom pic. Male rainbows will become deeper in the body whereas the females will be more slender. (Some species will be similar heights). In general male rainbowfish develop longer more pointed fins. In particular the first dorsal fin will often overlap the second dorsal fin. This doesn't happen in females. The female's fins will be shorter and more rounded.

All rainbowfish are easy to breed and will produce eggs every day for months at a time. The eggs are scattered in the plants and take about 4-7 days to hatch, depending on species. Some of the blue-eye rainbows (Pseudomugil sp) can take up to 2 weeks to hatch. M. boesemani eggs will hatch after about 4-5 days at 24C.
The fry are free swimming as soon as they hatch and should be fed on very fine foods including infusoria, green water, liquid fry and powered fry foods. After a week you can add newly hatched brineshrimp & microworms to their diet.
If you want to breed the boesemani then remove the other rainbow so the species don't hybridise. All rainbowfish will cross breed and you get some really odd looking fish. So it's preferable to only keep eggs from a single species tank.
If you put the pr of boesemani in a 2ft tank with an established sponge filter and some plants, leave them there for a week and then put the adults back in the main tank, you will get young in the 2ft tank pretty quickly.

Make sure their tank is covered because rainbows jump. They will tolerate salt but don't need it. M. boesemani comes from hard alkaline water but will be fine in softer neutral water. Most rainbows become nervous and panic if the water is too acidic or has high ammonia, nitrite & nitrate levels.

 

[rassy]

Wow, Colin_T, thank you for all your information. That surely is helpful, especially should I wish to breed the Bosemani pair, as well. I don't know what a 2ft tank is, but I have 2 unused 20 gallon tanks, one being a long one. Although I know alot about making infusoria, and feeding fry with microworms and live foods, I still am pretty well a failure at raising fry of any type although I have gotten better to the point where they actually live...hehehe. I think I fuss over them too much. I doubt much breeding would happen in my tank as it is now as it seems too busy and as my fish are getting bigger, I am thinking of buying a 55gallon or an 80 gallon tank.

When I bought my original fish last year, as I mentioned before, they were all in the same tank in the store..g. danios, rainbows and a few others I don't recall. If I remember correctly, they were really small and very pale in colour at the time, so it was probably hard to tell the difference. I trusted the person who fished them out for me, and perhaps I should have scrutinised the bag more before I took it home. I figure I lucked out, though, as I really do like my Bosemani and feel happy to have a male/female pair that I can perhaps breed when I am ready.

Since you seem to very knowledgable with fish info, might I ask another question that I can't seem to find an answer to? Although I know how to find out the PH levels and hardness of my water, how do I make harder water soft and vice versa? Or is that all tied in with the PH levels somehow? I can't seem to find the answer to that anywhere and when I ask the people at fish stores, they seem stumped and I never really seem to be able to get a straight answer for that.

 

[Colin_T]

a 2ft tank is simply a 2ft long aquarium that is about 12 inches wide and high. It holds about 10 gallons but any tank that size or bigger will be fine for breeding a pr of rainbowfish. One of your spare 20g tanks will be ideal for breeding and rearing the fry.

Rainbow fry are pretty easy to rear especially if you can feed them infusoria. Once the adults have been removed from the tank you drop the water levels so the fry and food are closer together. Then they don't have to look as hard to find something to eat. Add some infusoria each day and after a week start adding newly hatched brineshrimp. Keep feeding infusoria for another week after you add brineshrimp so all the fry are feeding properly.
Once they are on newly hatched brineshrimp you just keep them full and do daily water changes. Use dechlorinated water with the same temp & PH as the tank. Temperature changes and chlorine will kill fry, as will ammonia and nitrite readings.

Your rainbows will probably breed in your tank even though there are lots of other fish in it. They just don't care who else is in the tank. They are pure exhibitionists

Hard water has lots of minerals dissolved in it. You can lower the hardness with ion exchange resins, peat, reverse osmosis (R/O) units, or diluting the water with rain, distilled or R/O water.
Rain water, distilled water and R/O water have virtually no mineral content in them and should be pretty close to pure water. If you mix some of this pure water with the harder water then you can lower the general hardness (GH).

Soft water will be more likely to go acidic, whereas hard water is more likely to be alkaline. However, you can have soft water with an alkaline PH, and hard water with an acid PH.

The PH usually goes acidic when there is not enough minerals, (primarily carbonates and bicarbonates) dissolved in the water. When the carbonates are used up the PH can suddenly drop. The carbonates and bicarbonates are considered the KH of water. When you do a KH test you are testing for these carbonates.
The GH test will test for all dissolved minerals including carbonates, sulphates, chlorides, etc.

To increase the general hardness of water you can add mineral salts. Epsom salts are magnesium and will increase the GH. Limestone, coral & shell will all dissolve slowly in water and release calcium carbonate to the water.
You can buy rift lake conditioner from petshops and these contain a vast array of mineral salts with the emphasis on calcium and magnesium. The rift lake conditioners are one of the better ways to increase the GH of water. You can add any amount of the salts, however, the more you add, the harder the water will become.

Unless your tap water is extremely hard and you are dealing with wild caught fish, most people don't bother changing the general hardness. Captive bred fishes are quite tolerant of hardness and fish like neon tetras will be quite happy in water with a GH of 200ppm.

 

[rassy]

Thank you once again, Colin_T!!

This information is mighty helpful to me I've always wanted to know in case I needed to change the hardness of my water for some reason, although I never have needed to so far. I live in an area where we could end up with hard water sometimes, although I've never seen that evident in my tanks (yet). I get my tank water tested for free at a store across town and do have them check for that.

I am grateful for all the information and help you have taken the time with. It's extremely helpful to me and I truly appreciate it PS:I don't have just one Australian rainbow anymore - I've since gotten him a mate so he wouldn't be lonely LOL