Electric Blue "balloon" Rams?

[Samuran]

I've got a pair of Electric Blue Rams in my breeding tank, they've already spawned once but the eggs weren't fertalised they are now starting to look ready to try again... probably in the next week or so...
I LOVE RAMS!
Ben

 

[Redrum]

are you having trouble feeding yours? i just got a ram for my 10 gallon and he spits out the flakes but he eats the mysis shrimp i feed him

 

[deftuch]

Did you buy them from kesgrave then? I go there sometimes but they didnt have the blue ballon rams in stock and all the normal blue rams where reserved

 

[Mr Melt]

Nah I just chucked some brine shrimp and sinking pellets in earlier; saw them nibble on the pellets like so feeding isn't too much of a problem =)

Aye I got them from Kesgrave Tropicals; if you go on their Ebay thing try emailing them to see if they'll reserve you one or two?

 

[deftuch]

Yeah i will do soon. But just added some fish and tank is a lil cloudy atm so i have 2 or 3 weeks to wait now

 

[lloyd]

Got them this morning =D

Seeing as they're such speedy buggers I decided to just upload pictures of them in the bags:

What you think? Remember that they aren't as colorful yet (due to the obvious stress of a new tank, plus their age - they're only babies =D)

Are they balloon rams?

 

[Mr Melt]

Got them this morning =D

Seeing as they're such speedy buggers I decided to just upload pictures of them in the bags:

What you think? Remember that they aren't as colorful yet (due to the obvious stress of a new tank, plus their age - they're only babies =D)

Are they balloon rams?

Yep!

 

[lloyd]

Y would you want to buy those poor fish? is it not just promoting disfiguring and harming already beautiful fish just to make them eye pleasing? its no better if not worse than dying a fish

 

[Mr Melt]

Y would you want to buy those poor fish? is it not just promoting disfiguring and harming already beautiful fish just to make them eye pleasing? its no better if not worse than dying a fish

No it isn't. Unless you have ample proof that the shape/colouration of this fish is causing it pain then your argument lacks substance.

I for one am fully against dying fish (particularly parrots); that is a CLEAR breach of animal welfare and rights.
Glofish is a bit more awkward a topic, and I'm unsure about that (so I'll say no more).
These rams however are perfectly happy and normal in my tank - they don't swim awkwardly and they are just as lively and energetic as my platy in the same tank. Besides they were BORN this way, they weren't artificially deformed during their lives ¬_¬

What about the Gold Ram/Crowntail Fighting Fish/Tank Discus? Is it cruel to breed such strains of fish too?

 

[lloyd]

unnatural and pointless. y should a fish have to be changed so drastically to be appreciated? it is just promoting bad practice that needs to be stamped out but because people buy these fish the situation will only get worse. if a dog is deformed you would not breed from it, just like a cat, just like a rat. in the wild the deformed fish will die r get eaten 99.999999% of the time. breeding with such fish is immorrel. you have no idea how that fish is suffereing internally or will suffer internally or how many of its siblings havent made it or have had to be killed because of what people have bred them to look like.

 

[Mr Melt]

unnatural and pointless. y should a fish have to be changed so drastically to be appreciated? it is just promoting bad practice that needs to be stamped out but because people buy these fish the situation will only get worse. if a dog is deformed you would not breed from it, just like a cat, just like a rat. in the wild the deformed fish will die r get eaten 99.999999% of the time. breeding with such fish is immorrel. you have no idea how that fish is suffereing internally or will suffer internally or how many of its siblings havent made it or have had to be killed because of what people have bred them to look like.

I can see where your coming from but I can't agree. These fish are not bred to survive in the wild; they are purely tank fish. If I see evidence that they are indeed suffering in some form or other due to their breed then I will happily take your stance; at present I see no indication that my 2 rams are suffering.

 

[lloyd]

i just think as a fish keeper it is highly irrisponsable to keep these fish. im struggling to see why u would want to keep them though?

 

[kribensis12]

The only thing I can see wrong with this is the severe inbreeding that occurs to develop such colors. Rams are fairly delicate in the beginning, so it's interesting to see how well these do. I know the Electric Blue JD has a lot of issues because of inbreeding. I think I heard that 2 in every 100 fry survive. With the care and attention fish keepers give their fry, even more so for expensive fish, I see no reason why 80 or more percent shouldn't survive. I've also heard that there are a lot of health issues because of the inbreeding. They do look lovely. I hope they work out for you!

 

[Mr Melt]

They are perfectly healthy and fine fish; there is no irresponsibility involved here! Your comparing my keeping of these fish to placing Malawi's in with Goldfish or something! I chose them purely because I've wanted electrics for a long time, and they looked amazing. Both my tanks contain non threatening species, and adequate bacteria to handle their sensitive needs (based on a German Blue Ram's requirements btw).

And even if you are right what do I do next? Euthanise them? For being born? You don't consider the fact that we have no proof the fish are in pain or suffering; as you should know fish usually have obvious symptoms for pain or stress (be it clamped fins to listlessness). They show no such symptoms!

I'll finish with the same saying again; unless you can find proof that the fish are in pain and that this is a negative practice then I see no problem here.

The only thing I can see wrong with this is the severe inbreeding that occurs to develop such colors. Rams are fairly delicate in the beginning, so it's interesting to see how well these do. I know the Electric Blue JD has a lot of issues because of inbreeding. I think I heard that 2 in every 100 fry survive. With the care and attention fish keepers give their fry, even more so for expensive fish, I see no reason why 80 or more percent shouldn't survive. I've also heard that there are a lot of health issues because of the inbreeding. They do look lovely. I hope they work out for you!

Thanks very much =)

I specifically asked for a male/female pair, in the hopes that I could maybe get them to breed. If they do then I will see for myself whether the fry are deformed or not.

 

[kribensis12]

unnatural and pointless. y should a fish have to be changed so drastically to be appreciated? it is just promoting bad practice that needs to be stamped out but because people buy these fish the situation will only get worse. if a dog is deformed you would not breed from it, just like a cat, just like a rat. in the wild the deformed fish will die r get eaten 99.999999% of the time. breeding with such fish is immorrel. you have no idea how that fish is suffereing internally or will suffer internally or how many of its siblings havent made it or have had to be killed because of what people have bred them to look like.

Okay. I do understand where you are coming from. Balloon mollies have a high rate of swim bladder disease because of their genetics. Not all are like that though. Some live full and healthy lives. For balloon rams, because they are an entirely different kind of fish means that they might have different side effects, if any at all. If anything, I can see this as a "trial" period. If the OP has a really good experience and the possible fry turn out nicely; then I say no harm done. If I was going by your logic pertaining to altering fish, then I would find it hard to be in the hobby. From what I know, mollies aren't black in the wild. They are a greenish grey. So I wouldn't buy one because it's not natural looking. I wouldn't buy angelfish because most of them look NOTHING like wild caught ones. That includes veil tails, double blacks, smokies, kois ect. I wouldn't be able to buy most cichlid species at all because of the intensive inbreeding required to achieve the color desired. If the fish lives a long, healthy life with no signs of distress or poor immune system, then I don't see the harm. This is not saying that it's okay to make parrot fish. They are normally dyed, which poisons them, and can't even close their mouths. I don't see that being a lovely life for them. The idea of unnatural should not turn you off in the fish hobby due to the massive amounts of unnatural inbreeding and unnatural colors. The ethics are what should turn you off. You don't need to buy these fish if you don't want to. That doesn't make it okay to push your ideals on another person, especially without due cause.