EI journal

[nodding_dino]

funny to hear you mention the article in PFK, I read this last night and suddenly realised what a departure from the 'old school' EI really is.

Houndour, I too am beginning to get a little bored with the constant tinkering of the CO2...and am *seriously* considering plumping for a pressurised system. The initial outlay isn't something to be snipped at, but for ease of use, and the consistency of output, it has to be a winner...(This only goes to increase the respect I already have for all of the people on these boards that have such fantastically balanced systems using the DIY route - kudos to all of you!).

With a little one here (and another on the way), time is precious and I would prefer to be looking at the tank with my daughter than changing mixtures

I may start another thread to see which units people are using to help me a make a decision.

 

[iggy01]

Edit: interesting about PFK, the guy who wrote the article must be a bit of an expert at this stage at combatting algae, because thats all hes going to get with 0 nitrates and phosphates

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Nice one Zig!

Sam

I totally agree with Zig. Your CO2 seems to be the problem.


Nodding Dino

You are right. The EI is a departure from old school thinking. I think that's why most of us are disbelievers when we first read the article. I think 99% of people who already have experience in keeping a planted tank, think the EI will only cause algae problems. This is because experienced aquarists have had it drummed into them for years that algae is caused by excess nutrients. We now know excess nutrients, within reason, do not cause algae.

 

[Walt]

Curious.....

Is the heavy pearling thats taking place in our 'technology' tanks, also occur in nature?....

I mean.... is that rate the same in nature as our tanks?

or do we beat nature in this department due to our heavy lighting and co2 toys?

 

[iggy01]

Nice question Walt!

I don't honestly think the two are comparable though. Plants in their natural environment, have over thousands of years, developed ways in which to adapt best to their surroundings. Many grow through the water surface and get the CO2 they require. They don't have someone trimming them every Sunday morning.

Our tanks are obviously artificial and we do what we can to help the plants grow and minimize algae. I doubt that plants in the wild grow as fast as those in our CO2 tanks. I could be wrong though, I've never studied plants in rivers.

 

[George Farmer]

I haven't read this Journal for a while - great jobs guys!

I have this months copy of PFK and I'm a bit disappointed by its plant advice.

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I completely agree with you, zig and iggy too. The UK is stuck in the dark ages where EI is concerned. I think most UK "experts" still run fairly low-tech tanks with limited lighting and CO2 therefore nutrient defs are not a problem.

I am considering writing to them, explaining the EI principles but I fear it may fall on deaf ears. I have written to Peter Bradley (PFK Planted expert) before when I was experiencing NO3 def a while back and his reply stated I should just reduce my lighting and CO2 to compensate - not a good idea with high light plants All I wanted was a recommendation for a liquid fert containing NPK. Funnily enough he recommended API Leaf Zone and Tropica Mastergrow, neither of which contain N or P.

Perhaps attititudes will change eventually - I know we are doing our bit to influence as well as we can.

Walt - We grow plants submersed much quicker in our tanks than in nature. Our tanks are a closed-loop (as opposed to nature's open-loop) where algae control is the priority, to do this the plants need to grow rapidly, thus the high light and nutrient levels. Whether that "beats" nature is another question.

BTW Who's interested in splitting some K2SO4? PM me.

 

[smithrc]

just re tested my nitrate with a new test kit - its a 0ppm - not 20+ like the other test kit said

I retested the PO4 too and it still reads around 5 - retested tap water - and its around 5 - Its the same age as the original nitrate kit so its going ot be binned

So I've started dosing macros... Micros got done in one dose on sunday (like it has for the last few weeks but this will be changing)

I've dosed 5ppm KNO3 today I'll test to see what is left tomorrow to see what gets used in a day.

Without PO4 test kit - any 'estimates' at what I could try dosing at?
I'm starting to get algae so it must be low...

 

[zig]

just re tested my nitrate with a new test kit - its a 0ppm - not 20+ like the other test kit said

I retested the PO4 too and it still reads around 5 - retested tap water - and its around 5 - Its the same age as the original nitrate kit so its going ot be binned

So I've started dosing macros... Micros got done in one dose on sunday (like it has for the last few weeks but this will be changing)

I've dosed 5ppm KNO3 today I'll test to see what is left tomorrow to see what gets used in a day.

Without PO4 test kit - any 'estimates' at what I could try dosing at?
I'm starting to get algae so it must be low...

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If you had RO or Distilled water you could test your test kit, you could add a known amount of nitrate or phosphate to a couple of liters of water and do a test, and see what the kit says, just to make sure its totally useless before you bin it, might be worth doing before you buy new ones, cheaper anyway.

If you are going to assume that you have 0 phosphate in the tank, i would dose .25ppm each day until you get to 1ppm, you want somewhere between 1-2ppm ideally, when you get it to 1ppm (and you can test it correctly) you will have a better idea of the uptake rate, it will be less than the nitrate uptake, i only dose PO4 twice a week, 1ppm at water change and another 1ppm midweek, this keeps me at around 1-1.5ppm until another water change, but im doseing nitrates 3x per week.

With the nitrates having dosed 5ppm today, i would test it tomorrow and see the uptake rate and probably dose another 2 ppm, the next day 3ppm and so on until you get to 10ppm, and at that stage with a couple more tests you will have a very good idea as to how much you need to dose each time without testing.

And just make sure the co2 is doing its thing at 30ppm, and you should see an improvement in the algae, what type of algae is it?

 

[George Farmer]

Unfortunately the vast majority of NO3 kits are inaccurate. I use mine (Nutrafin) only as a guide - the best indicator is the plant's health and any algae.

That's the beauty of EI. Once you've figured out your dosing regime you rarely need to test. It the figuring out the right dosing that's the hard part!

 

[zig]

Unfortunately the vast majority of NO3 kits are inaccurate. I use mine (Nutrafin) only as a guide - the best indicator is the plant's health and any algae.

That's the beauty of EI. Once you've figured out your dosing regime you rarely need to test. It the figuring out the right dosing that's the hard part!

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But heres the thing gf..............he doesnt like water changes

 

[smithrc]

ok - I think i'll cave a bit on the one tank

Its not like its hard with a python anyway

 

[Jen]

I haven't had a chance to read through all the pages yet... it's goign to take me a while. Things look like they are going well for you (or at least, that what it looks like from the first 3 pages)

My chemicals are on route, and I'm expecting them sometime this week. I just have a quick question about mixing the chem's with the water.

For my tank (90g) I followed Chucks calculator, and it looks like I'm going to have to mix 16tablespoons of nitrate in 500ml to get 1ml=1ppm. Will that amount of nitrate mix in that much water? It seems like an aweful lot of powder. Will Ihave to double my water and then add 2ml to get the 1ppm? Does that make sence?

 

[zig]

I haven't had a chance to read through all the pages yet... it's goign to take me a while. Things look like they are going well for you (or at least, that what it looks like from the first 3 pages)

My chemicals are on route, and I'm expecting them sometime this week. I just have a quick question about mixing the chem's with the water.

For my tank (90g) I followed Chucks calculator, and it looks like I'm going to have to mix 16tablespoons of nitrate in 500ml to get 1ml=1ppm. Will that amount of nitrate mix in that much water? It seems like an aweful lot of powder. Will Ihave to double my water and then add 2ml to get the 1ppm? Does that make sence?

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If you read the pinned guide it might be easier than going through all the pages here, if you use the downloaded version of the calculator it tells you automatically if you are useing too much, a little warning pops up telling you the maximum solubility of each chemical.

Not sure if you are useing to much as each tank size is different.

The download is only tiny under 1 mb as far as i remember.

If you are still not sure post back later.

 

[zig]

I haven't had a chance to read through all the pages yet... it's goign to take me a while. Things look like they are going well for you (or at least, that what it looks like from the first 3 pages)

My chemicals are on route, and I'm expecting them sometime this week. I just have a quick question about mixing the chem's with the water.

For my tank (90g) I followed Chucks calculator, and it looks like I'm going to have to mix 16tablespoons of nitrate in 500ml to get 1ml=1ppm. Will that amount of nitrate mix in that much water? It seems like an aweful lot of powder. Will Ihave to double my water and then add 2ml to get the 1ppm? Does that make sence?

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I just checked for you and the amount you are adding is correct and should dissolve in the solution no problem, it may seem a lot but your tank is quite big relatively speaking.

 

[Jen]

I downloaded chuck's calculator, and one of the options is to dose the ferts dry. Is there any advantage to doing it this way?

 

[zig]

I downloaded chuck's calculator, and one of the options is to dose the ferts dry. Is there any advantage to doing it this way?

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No real advantage as such, an awful lot of people do it this way, i just found it easier to make it into a solution, i think its more accurate, but with the Estimative method it is ok to add little bit more here and there, hence the 50% water change to reset the tank if a nutrient builds up to much.

But you can do it this way, gregwatson.com used to sell a set of measureing spoons for dosing dry but he has'nt had these available for a long time, and also im European and more used to metric measurements, whereas Americans and Canadians are more used to imperial measurements 1/8, 1/16 etc, but no there is no advantage both methods are quite ok.