EI journal

houndour

Twiglet and Eeyore
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Nodding Dino, hope you don't mind and I hope you are still up for it, but I thought I'd get this thing started.

I'm going to buy the following:
3kg Potassium Sulphate (I'm getting this now as if I get it later it will cost extra in postage)
500g Potassium Nitrate
500g Potassium Phosphate

Also, I'm going to get some 500ml bottles of water to store my solutions. The RO water as recommended by Zig (I'm sure I've seen this at my LFS).

I already have a measuring vial I can use.

I'm considering a new set of electronic scales (existing ones are broke) and I need a new one for ebay selling anyway.

Next step is figuring out the dosages, but this is where I'm all confused. Need to do more reading and then post qs.
 
no problem houndour!

I've just had a quick ring around a couple of nurseries/garden centres and am getting fairly naff answers to whether or not they stock the ingredients! So I think that ordering them online is the way to go!

I also rang my lfs to ask if they supplied RO water...they do, in 25l containers!!! I explained that I would want no more than a litre or so, and they have kindly offered to give me some as a freebie!
 
Well congratulations i dont think you will regret it (i hope) below is a link to a calculator, you should bookmark this site anyway as its very good, the calculator will show how to make up your solutions, its pretty self explanatory, you put in your tank size in US gallons, and the calculator will do the rest, have a look and see what you think, you wont use all of the powdered chemicals you have ordered, just enough to make up 500ml, just store the rest of the chemicals in a dry place until you need to mix them up again.

Doseage calculator

Best of luck guys, lots of people will help you im sure, it should be a great journal, and im sure many others will follow you, i can see this being a very popular thread in the weeks ahead, it should be great, and i think your plant skills will come on in leaps and bounds in the weeks ahead :)
 
I also rang my lfs to ask if they supplied RO water...they do, in 25l containers!!! I explained that I would want no more than a litre or so, and they have kindly offered to give me some as a freebie!

Oh thats a good idea, maybe I can get some free. Last time I went they gave me a free handful of java moss :D

I'm reading through the Tom Barrs report and it says to find out PO4, NO3, K and Fe levels in the water. I'm not too good at phoning, and I found a report for Thames Water on the web. http://www.thameswateruk.co.uk/en_gb/Downl...L_AND_COVER.pdf
Do you think this is OK to go by?
Nitrate is 50mgNO3/l
Iron is 300 (micro?? funny u-shape thing - greek letter - oh my god I did maths at uni and I can't remember what its called...found it...mu :))
they don't have the other 2 :( maybe I'll have to phone afterall.
 
houndour said:
I also rang my lfs to ask if they supplied RO water...they do, in 25l containers!!! I explained that I would want no more than a litre or so, and they have kindly offered to give me some as a freebie!

Oh thats a good idea, maybe I can get some free. Last time I went they gave me a free handful of java moss :D

I'm reading through the Tom Barrs report and it says to find out PO4, NO3, K and Fe levels in the water. I'm not too good at phoning, and I found a report for Thames Water on the web. http://www.thameswateruk.co.uk/en_gb/Downl...L_AND_COVER.pdf
Do you think this is OK to go by?
Nitrate is 50mgNO3/l
Iron is 300 (micro?? funny u-shape thing - greek letter - oh my god I did maths at uni and I can't remember what its called...found it...mu :))
they don't have the other 2 :( maybe I'll have to phone afterall.
[snapback]853850[/snapback]​

Realistically you really only need a Nitrate and Phosphate test kit, but you do need both of these, you may have to order a phosphate test kit online as these are not normally stocked by the lfs

You can get a Phosphate test kit here

Aquatics online

Iron or Fe test kits are notoriously unreliable, so most people dont use them, IMO you dont need one.

There is no commercially available test kit to test for Potassium, so again we dont use one.

You only need the Nitrate and Phosphate test kit, these are a must, as these are the main fertilisers you will be adding to your tank on a regular, probably weekly basis, so in the beginning it is essential that you can test for these.
 
I have both a nitrate and phosphate (and iron :S) test kit. Phosphates used to be ok, but now they are barely detectable.

Currently after a water change my Nitrates are 5ppm.
After a week they might get to 10ppm if I'm lucky.

OK, been looking at the calculator and I think I'm beginning to understand.

These are for 22 US gallon tank:
KNO3: 12 teaspoon/67.2g in 500ml
1ml gives 0.99ppm nitrate
0.62ppm Potassium

KH2PO4: 1.25 teaspoon/6g in 500ml
1ml gives 0.1ppm phosphate

So how does this work?

Say I do a weekly water change of 50%.
My nitrates are back to 5ppm. Do I now add say 10-15 ml of my solution to give me 15-20ppm nitrates? So then technically if I measured the nitrates again they would be 15-20ppm. And same with phosphates?

Where does the daily dosing routine come in? Or as they get used up are you sposed to add like 1ml extra every day to keep it constant? (depending on how quick it goes down?

Am I getting the right idea?

Now I can see why you'd be testing virtually everyday for the first few weeks.

About the potassium...because we can't test for it, is that why I need to find out how much is in the water. So I can get the right amount? Just by adding 10ml of KNO3 gives me 6ppm of potassium. It says K should be 10-30ppm. So if my K is 4 or more in the tap it should be OK to go without the K2SO4? If it's nearing zero then I'd want to add extra K2SO4. cos adding more KNO3 would be adding more NO3 which I might not want.
 
have just spoken with Anglian Water and one of their 'Water Quality Engineers' will be calling me back shortly...!
OK, I just plucked up the courage to phone the water board and they can't tell me over the phone. They have to send a report to my address. He couldn't even say if the report was the same as the online one :( If it is then it's pretty much useless as K isn't on that one.
 
Am I missign something, but what is "EI" journal and what are you trying to do here ? :dunno:
 
Slow down hondour thats a lot of questions :D

Yes you are beginning to get it, told you it was easy.

I havent double checked your calculations ill do that later, but you seem to have it correct.

In the beginning, the first couple of weeks you will slowly build your nitrate and phosphate levels up within the parameters.

I would aim to get your Nitrate levels up 10ppm and to keep them there for a while, now you have to do this slowly in the beginning, i wouldnt add an extra 5ppm immeaditaly, i would add 1ppm each day for about a week, and after about 4-5 days i would test the nitrate to see where you are, because dont forget each day the plants will be consuming the nitrate so the level will drop down again, at the end of the first week you will do your water change and add new water, so in effect you have lost half the nitrates and now you need to build them back up again, on the second week i would probably start adding 2ppm for a few days only and then test the level again with your nitrate kit, again your plants will be consumeing the nitrate, at what rate they are consuming the nitrate you wont know until you test, each tank or setup will be different, my uptake seems to be quite slow, yours may be a lot quicker, this is why you test in the beginning to make sure the nitrate does not run out.

Again i would do the same thing with the phosphate, build it up slowly, initially you want to reach a level of about 0.50-1 ppm of phosphate, the idea is that you should have a ratio of 10-1 between the nitrate and the phosphate, so 10ppm nitrate 1ppm phosphate, and these are the levels you should try and keep on an ongoing basis initially for the first 3-4 weeks.

Initially i would add 0.1ppm phosphate and only add this amount again after 2 days, bring the levels up slowly testing as you go to not over do it, you will find the more potassium you add the more the nitrates will be used up by the plants.

The idea of the method is that you will be able to notice defficiencys in your plants if they are lacking in any of the main constituant fertilisers, you dont need to test for potassium this will show up quite quickly if it is defficient.

A potassium defficiency would look like........pinholes would appear on the older leaves and after a while will get bigger, you would get yellow areas on the leaves and the tips and edges of some leaves might look withered.

But this will show up quite quickly, but it shouldnt be a problem because you are getting K from the pottassium nitrate and the potassium phosphate anyway so you should not see any deficiencys.

Edit: but yes hondour you can add the potassiun sulphate to the required level, but you will probably find you dont really need anymore, whats allready supplied should be sufficient, but wait and see if you see any defficiency and then i would add some K2SO4.

Just another thing i think we should start useing the chemical terms in the thread, its sort of standard practice if you use the EI method and are talking to other users, and it makes it easier for typing.
 
WoW Zig, you seem to now a heck of a lot :blink:
but also convey it in such a way that it's "easy (er)" to understand. :cool:
 
Just another sidenote here, in the beginning you will do a lot of tests, and you can see why from the above, but after a few weeks of useing the method you will find you get into the swing of things and will do less tests over time, you will find that you are able to nearly guess how much you should be adding of the KNO3 and the PO4 without even testing, i still test once or twice a week for the po4 and kno3, but more times than not i neednt have bothered because you will learn what the uptake rates of your given tank is, and this will really only change unless you make a dramatic change to your setup, for instance if you added more light or took half of your fast growing plants out and added slow growing plants, this would obviously throw the balance of your tank off and you would probably have to start testing again for the new setup because the uptake rate would be different.

And yes hondour the doseing routine comes in as the KNO3 and PO4 get used up, you try and keep the levels constant by doseing the KNO3 and PO4 every couple of days as required, but its an easy task as time goes on because you can judge how much is being consumed by the plants, and its as easy as adding any liquid fertiliser, it only takes a minute or so each time.

The idea of the water change each week is to *reset* the tank, after a while as you are doing less tests each week the water change ensures that no constituant fertiliser builds up to an excess level and by doing the water change you almost guarentee this, and therefore you shouldnt have any problems.

We can post doseing routines for both of you when your chemicals arrive and you have the test kits, dont worry about this for the moment.

Just read up on the Barr Report and have a good look at Chuck Gadds website in the link i gave you aother good beginner website is this one below.

Rex Grigg

These are all great sites if you are starting off, thats how i got going in the beginning, happy reading :)
 
nodding_dino said:
great posts guys (n gal!) this is all finally starting to make sense...

PS - not sure about that last link...try here.
[snapback]853960[/snapback]​

Cheers nodding dino........gremlins in my browser.......i corrected it anyway.
 

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