Eggs! Help with sexing angelfish

[pragmatic]

I have two angelfish in my 50 gallon community tank. Two weeks ago they laid eggs for the first time ever (!) but they ate the eggs a couple days later. Last night I noticed that there were more eggs on a leaf in the tank. This morning many of the eggs have turned white, while last night they were almost all tan. I read this means the eggs are rotting/not fertilized.

Both angels are swimming above the eggs and chasing off any other tank members that come nearby.

I will attach pictures of the eggs and angels below. I am wondering if perhaps both of my angels are girls. Any help with sexing them would be most appreciated! If it turns out that I do have a boy and girl, I would like to try raising the eggs on my own if that would give them a better chance of survival.

Also, I got the two fish back in December. Their bodies were each about the size of a silver dollar coin when I got them, so I'm guessing they're about 6 months old now. The yellow one is larger than the white one now.

 

[Colin_T]

Male angelfish grow bigger than females, however the males get a more rounded forehead. The white fish is smaller but appears to have a more rounded forehead. If you watch them the next time they breed, have a look at the ovipositor (egg laying tube). The female's ovipositor will be short and wider than the male's, which will be longer and thinner.

It's not uncommon for some eggs to be infertile but I wouldn't worry about it yet. Most angelfish take time to work out how to be good parents and fertilise all the eggs.

Angelfish and other cichlids learn from their parents. Wild angelfish look after their eggs and young and show good parental care. In Asia where most aquarium fish are bred, the eggs are taken away from the parents to be hatched and the fry reared separately. The baby angelfish never see their parents and get no parental care, so don't know how to be parents. They have to learn by trial and error and after about 5 or 6 batches of eggs, they usually start to get the hang of it.

Think of it as a human couple trying to have and rear a baby without any help, books or knowledge from anyone else. Woman becomes pregnant and gets fat, then she has a baby. Man stands there going WTF is going on. Baby pops out and screams, adults scream, blood and amniotic fluid everywhere. It's a mess and nobody knows what to do.

Commercially raised angelfish never see an adult angelfish and don't get books or videos on how to be a good parent. So they make it up as they go along. The female lays eggs and they look at them for a few hours and try a few to see what they taste like. The eggs are tasty so they eat them all. A week later they lay some more eggs and they might eat them too.

Eventually one of the parents tries to care for the eggs and stops the other fish eating them. Low and behold, the eggs hatch but the baby fish wiggle about and the adults go "FOOD" and eat them. Live food wiggles about and baby angelfish wiggling on a leaf look absolutely delicious. The next couple of batches usually get eaten too.

Finally the parents work out they shouldn't eat the eggs or newly hatched fry and they start to look after them. The eggs hatch and fry become free swimming. Then everyone else in the tank tries to eat the babies. The adult fish try to chase the other fish away but over the next few days most if not all the fry get eaten.

Eventually most prs work it out and manage to keep some of the fry alive.

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You need a picture/ backing on the back of the tank to make the fish feel more secure. You can buy aquarium backings from pet shops or use coloured card, a rubbish bin liner or even newspaper. You sticky tape the picture to the outside of the glass and it makes the fish feel more comfortable.

 

[pragmatic]

Male angelfish grow bigger than females, however the males get a more rounded forehead. The white fish is smaller but appears to have a more rounded forehead. If you watch them the next time they breed, have a look at the ovipositor (egg laying tube). The female's ovipositor will be short and wider than the male's, which will be longer and thinner.

It's not uncommon for some eggs to be infertile but I wouldn't worry about it yet. Most angelfish take time to work out how to be good parents and fertilise all the eggs.

Angelfish and other cichlids learn from their parents. Wild angelfish look after their eggs and young and show good parental care. In Asia where most aquarium fish are bred, the eggs are taken away from the parents to be hatched and the fry reared separately. The baby angelfish never see their parents and get no parental care, so don't know how to be parents. They have to learn by trial and error and after about 5 or 6 batches of eggs, they usually start to get the hang of it.

Think of it as a human couple trying to have and rear a baby without any help, books or knowledge from anyone else. Woman becomes pregnant and gets fat, then she has a baby. Man stands there going WTF is going on. Baby pops out and screams, adults scream, blood and amniotic fluid everywhere. It's a mess and nobody knows what to do.

Commercially raised angelfish never see an adult angelfish and don't get books or videos on how to be a good parent. So they make it up as they go along. The female lays eggs and they look at them for a few hours and try a few to see what they taste like. The eggs are tasty so they eat them all. A week later they lay some more eggs and they might eat them too.

Eventually one of the parents tries to care for the eggs and stops the other fish eating them. Low and behold, the eggs hatch but the baby fish wiggle about and the adults go "FOOD" and eat them. Live food wiggles about and baby angelfish wiggling on a leaf look absolutely delicious. The next couple of batches usually get eaten too.

Finally the parents work out they shouldn't eat the eggs or newly hatched fry and they start to look after them. The eggs hatch and fry become free swimming. Then everyone else in the tank tries to eat the babies. The adult fish try to chase the other fish away but over the next few days most if not all the fry get eaten.

Eventually most prs work it out and manage to keep some of the fry alive.

---------------------
You need a picture/ backing on the back of the tank to make the fish feel more secure. You can buy aquarium backings from pet shops or use coloured card, a rubbish bin liner or even newspaper. You sticky tape the picture to the outside of the glass and it makes the fish feel more comfortable.

Thanks for the response! I like the idea of them figuring it out on their own and raising them naturally. I will let the eggs and angels do their own thing.

How long is the ovipositor tube visible? 10 minutes, a few hours, all day? The last two times they bred I wasn't at the house at the time so I didn't see the action happening. Hopefully I can catch a glimpse next time.

I will look for backing for the tank.

 

[Colin_T]

The ovipositor pops out just before they start breeding and remains out until they have finished breeding (usually several hours). The female uses it to put the eggs onto the plant leaf and the male uses his to fertilise the eggs.

The female's ovipositor is about 2mm long and the male's is about 4mm long.

The following link has information about preparing food for baby fish. You might find it interesting.
http://www.fishforums.net/threads/back-to-basics-when-breeding-fish.448304/